Sick of unjust vote dismisses

[Atlaworks]

I never said any of those things. Someone insulted my reading skills actually. I'm simply telling about my experiences, and reminding people that there are people with different ones from their own. Oh and um...disagreements are not harassment.

Being demeaning is. And there's been plenty of demeaning going on. I'm not going to individually go quoting lines from half the posts in the topic either way, though.

[Adire]

Being demeaning is. And there's been plenty of demeaning going on. I'm not going to individually go quoting lines from half the posts in the topic either way, though.

Well, you won't find anything demeaning in what I said. There's a very fine line between a passionate debate and critique, and hateful, intentional demeaning. The internet isn't a place for someone who can't handle "what's wrong with you people" from someone who is obviously distraught that people seem to think she's at fault for being kicked.

And to be honest, I share her feelings in that regard, though I'm refraining from venting these feelings. Many of the posts here seem quite insensitive, and many are directly or indirectly telling us it's our faults for being abused and kicked. We've used examples of how we've been kicked, yet people are still defending the actions of our kickers and acting as if it's not an issue worth addressing because their own experiences have been different. That's like someone who was bullied being told to sit down and stop whining by everyone else, it's the victim's fault.

[Chevrefoil]

Considering the responses from the OP and said supporters, I can understand why they get vote-kicked often.

And yes, it is bullying to accuse someone of not reading when they simply present their own experiences. I posted -one- response sharing my experiences and you immediately attacked me. Are you saying -reading- how you have been abused will change the fact that many people have never been kicked unjustly?

[Alberel]

I must admit I've been kicked a couple of times by silent groups that never talk. The kick ALWAYS comes immediately before the final boss with no warning. Considering that all I say in these dungeons is a polite 'Hello' at the start before giving up because they refuse to talk I think it's safe to say I didn't do anything to upset anyone. I'm pretty sure these are pre-formed groups entering with the intent to troll or to try and let a FC friend join for the last boss. Both are breaches of the ToS and are reportable if you can get their names.

[Adire]

Considering the responses from the OP and said supporters, I can understand why they get vote-kicked often.

And yes, it is bullying to accuse someone of not reading when they simply present their own experiences. I posted -one- response sharing my experiences and you immediately attacked me. Are you saying -reading- how you have been abused will change the fact that many people have never been kicked unjustly?

You're proving our point unfortunately....and no, I don't get kicked often. When I have, it's been wrong though. Upon entering a duty, I usually say nothing, do my job, and move on. I did not attack you, I asked if you read, because you said we must have done something wrong. I assumed you would maybe change your opinion after seeing the reasons we were kicked.

And no, I never said that. I actually mentioned in a previous post that I'm aware I am unlucky in that regard. I also mentioned that I know people who have this problem more frequently than I do, and less frequently. As a human being, are we not all entitled to be treated fairly though? How is it a problem that I'm wanting justice for the supposed minority of people who get kicked for wrongful reasons?

I must admit I've been kicked a couple of times by silent groups that never talk. The kick ALWAYS comes immediately before the final boss with no warning. Considering that all I say in these dungeons is a polite 'Hello' at the start before giving up because they refuse to talk I think it's safe to say I didn't do anything to upset anyone. I'm pretty sure these are pre-formed groups entering with the intent to troll or to try and let a FC friend join for the last boss. Both are breaches of the ToS and are reportable if you can get their names.

Yes, do report these people if they do this. I've reported a few for doing it, hopefully something was done to them.

[Chevrefoil]

You -cannot- legitimately get kicked in this game for unjust reasons. It is a bannable offense. If someone chooses not to report abusive vote-kicks, that is their decision. Admittedly, reporting abusive vote-kicks will not change the fact that you were kicked, but it should be an incentive for people NOT to abuse vote kicks. I have been running dungeons and raids for awhile now and the only times I have seen vote kicks initiated were for people offline or afk.

I am taking you to task for your attitude and tone in your posts which is less than polite and civil, not the actual content. If you want people to support your cause, you should be more diplomatic in your language. Saying "I understand that you have not personally experienced this, Serenity, but unfortunately, others have, despite your view, and don't you agree that it's wrong?" is far more civil than accusing someone of not having read the thread.

[Adire]

You -cannot- legitimately get kicked in this game for unjust reasons. It is a bannable offense. If someone chooses not to report abusive vote-kicks, that is their decision. Admittedly, reporting abusive vote-kicks will not change the fact that you were kicked, but it should be an incentive for people NOT to abuse vote kicks. I have been running dungeons and raids for awhile now and the only times I have seen vote kicks initiated were for people offline or afk.

I am taking you to task for your attitude and tone in your posts which is less than polite and civil, not the actual content. If you want people to support your cause, you should be more diplomatic in your language. Saying "I understand that you have not personally experienced this, Serenity, but unfortunately, others have, despite your view, and don't you agree that it's wrong?" is far more civil than accusing someone of not having read the thread.

I reported the people who kicked me in Halatali. I'm not sure what, if anything was done to them, but that's not the point of this topic. The point of it is to show that there are people who are not fearful of abusing the vote kick feature, not uncommon in my experience, and to show that the kick feature is flawed. We have discussed at least one possible solution to the latter, and the former is something that only SE can fix through better enforcement and harsher punishments. SE will only do so through enough player support, which is partly what the forums are for. To show player discussion about the game.

I'm also not sure how my attitude is bad...it may not be overly polite, as I've been often told I have a neutral and robotic tone when I type, but I can assure you I have not intended to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm actually a very sensitive person myself, and people have insulted me on this topic, but I haven't been bothered and haven't responded with insults. What's bothering me is the seeming insensitivity of people, and the blame people are putting on me and the others for posting about our bad experiences and acting as if we're at fault or lying.

Besides, again, I did not accuse you of not reading the thread. I -asked- if you did. And I asked because your response made it seem like you didn't. I mean, saying we're at fault, with the reasons we posted....plus, if you did read them, it would mean you knew the reasons and still believed we were at fault. Either way, can't you see how me thinking maybe you missed the posts was the more optimistic of those two things?

[Jinko]

I must admit I've been kicked a couple of times by silent groups that never talk. The kick ALWAYS comes immediately before the final boss with no warning. Considering that all I say in these dungeons is a polite 'Hello' at the start before giving up because they refuse to talk I think it's safe to say I didn't do anything to upset anyone. I'm pretty sure these are pre-formed groups entering with the intent to troll or to try and let a FC friend join for the last boss. Both are breaches of the ToS and are reportable if you can get their names.

I'l agree this is bullshit and should be reported and tbh it would be quite easy for SE to clamp down on this by simply looking at the logs and what happens after the person gets kicked.


The issue I have is that we complained when people trolled in parties and we had no way of removing them, so they added this feature and now we're moan because people are trolling in other ways.

I ask Adire this ~(seeing as you are being the most vocal in here)~, what would you have them do to solve this issue ?

Lets try to agree that having them investigate every case of unfair play is most likely not a suitable solution for starters, so where do we go from there.

Instead of argueing about the ifs and buts how about we try and come up with a solution ?

[Adire]

A partial solution someone else mentioned earlier in the topic, as well as myself just moments before them, involved making the person being kicked be an automatic No vote. As the feature stands now, voting someone out in a 4 man dungeon does not require a majority. The person being kicked has no vote at all, so even if the neutral person votes, it won't matter if the 2 buddies vote Yes. It's currently not fair. It could still be abused if 3 people were in a premade vs 1 random person or if one person simply didn't vote, but it would definitely lessen the amount of times this happens, and at least get it to require a majority.

An additional action would be for SE to ramp up the punishment for abusing the feature, enforce it very strictly, and do more investigation if needed and possible. Basically, dissuading people from abusing the feature to start with.

I imagine doing both of these things would pretty much stomp out this from happening.

[Laerune]

I got kicked once for showing my manqote's legs... I was wearing the Lord Yukata pants... guess some people can not deal the sexiness that is a male kitty.