SMN redesign in expansion?

[Zedd702]

I am so friggen tired of all these wild things people are suggesting.

Then don't read them...

The one thing that pisses me off is my DPS/MP in Final Coil. All these people who don't play Summoner, or dropped it to play something else til Summoner is fixed need to get the hell out of here. The two things the job needs is better mp scaling, and higher potency. THAT'S IT! Losing in damage to even my Bard except when he plays songs is frustrating as hell, and ego crushing.

Did it ever occur to you that the suggestions that people are making are aimed at the summoner as a whole, in which you are also complaining about? Instead of suggesting a change, you'd rather shoot down other people's ideas that are all aimed in the direction for a fix to summoner.

In the expansion, THEN we can get spell adjustments and new skills that make us feel more "Summoner-y". It pisses me off when people suggest the wildest things without playing Summoner at the highest levels, and pushing their limits to be the best Summoner they can be. Stop giving SE stupid ideas so that the job can be potentially ruined.

How can you be so sure that it will make us feel "Summoner-y?" The job is already ruined in terms of uniqueness, DPS, MP consumption and end-game play...

[Akiza]

SE already ruined the Summoner in terms of uniqueness by making it a poorly designed reskinned Green Mage/Saboteur with a Pet as an auto turret.

[Orrias]

SE already ruined the Summoner in terms of uniqueness by making it a poorly designed reskinned Green Mage/Saboteur with a Pet as an auto turret.

I checked to see what a "Green Mage" was, and a Summoner isn't a "reskinned Green Mage", nor is it a Saboteur, which I'm assuming by "Saboteur", you mean Saboteur from FF13.

The pet isn't an "auto turrent" either...

Also, you post a hell of a lot about SMN's, and yet your character can't have seen much, if any, of FCoB based on the fact that your gear is underwhelming. Not that people can't weigh in on matters that they aren't fully aware of at a personal level, but you seem to be constantly posting inane and fickle ruminations based on little-to-no actual experience.

SMN's need help with their mp regen/ management, as well as a minor dps boost (and perhaps an overhaul of the 'rhythm' and aesthetics to the Job), but this is known by Yoshi-P, and will be addressed for 3.0.

[Zedd702]

SMN's need help with their mp regen/ management, as well as a minor dps boost (and perhaps an overhaul of the 'rhythm' and aesthetics to the Job), but this is known by Yoshi-P, and will be addressed for 3.0.

I'm sure Akiza meant Green mage/Saboteur mesh, not one or the other... which is not totally correct nor is it incorrect.

Also, it is not a requirement to play in or beat the final coil to understand, point out, or know that something like summoner needs adjustments. I don't understand people's, no, raiders warped assumptions about something as trivial as this.

And furthermore Yoshi-P said they were looking to adjust the job before 3.0, whether that means begin adjusting the items that need to be addressed (ie DPS/MP) and leave the aesthetics for 3.0, that's another thing, but they did mention that they have been carefully considering changes to SMN before 3.0 launch.

[Dyvid]

Angry Text

I would just like to point out the title "SMN redesign in the expansion?"

Snip

I made a suggest similar to this about a year ago but over that course I decided I prefer Ifrit as a Single Target dps and Garuda as my AoE choice. Also I would prefer to keep buffs on the SCH side of the house but would love to have a pet that debuffs. Titan also needs a provoke ability to be a proper emergency tank. If you ever notice he can't pull hate of the party worth a spit. I was at the point were I wanted him to be a CC pet but end game doesn't really require CC so...

[Orrias]

I'm sure Akiza meant Green mage/Saboteur mesh, not one or the other... which is not totally correct nor is it incorrect.

Also, it is not a requirement to play in or beat the final coil to understand, point out, or know that something like summoner needs adjustments. I don't understand people's, no, raiders warped assumptions about something as trivial as this.

And furthermore Yoshi-P said they were looking to adjust the job before 3.0, whether that means begin adjusting the items that need to be addressed (ie DPS/MP) and leave the aesthetics for 3.0, that's another thing, but they did mention that they have been carefully considering changes to SMN before 3.0 launch.

Having mained as a SMN for FCoB and played it throughout 2.3 onwards, I can say unequivocally that SMN's only struggle with FCoB and T8 (pre-nerf), in terms of mp issues. SMN will most likely never be on par (mp/ availability to AoE damage) with a BLM, so mass AoE dps isn't an issue (e.g. 4+ mobs -> spamming Blizzard II after DoT application), so the only major problem is long drawn out fights (i.e. FCoB and T8), which is where the problem became glaringly apparent.

I understand some people have issues with some of the newer dungeons being bothersome, but they're not something that Jobs are specifically based around, as all non-Coil encounters favour certain Job(s) over other in terms of ease and dps output for the fight. Take Levi (HM)/ (EX) for example, it's the perfect fight for a SMN, but you don't/didn't see other people complaining on the forums that these non-Coil instances are imbalanced, because it doesn't really matter.

In FCoB (and T8 when in mattered), you're expected to pull your weight, as much, if not more than other dps Jobs. When you're Job is gimped into not being able to pull off it's maximum potential because the fights mechanics/ in-buily Job mechanics hinder this, then you have a problem.

Getting back to the thread topic (more specifically), I hope (as you mentioned) that the development team is indeed looking into doing something "adjust the job before 3.0", however, as I can't find the article/ video with which Yoshi-P addressed this point, so I can't say much more, other than I remember them mentioning it would be around Heavensward time, which makes perfect sense (i.e. new Egi's > forced re-balance anway).

I know Yoshi-P and the dev. team are rather prescient and plan well in advance with FF14, but for some reason, the matter of SMNs (in general) and their dps/ mp in FCoB (or long, drawn out fights in general) hasn't been addressed properly on these forums by any representative (as far as I'm aware :/), nor has it been explicty been addressed in any LIVE letter/ producer letter.

I'll wait to see what happens come 3.0 anyway.

[Zedd702]

Explanation

I understand you and thank you for clarifying your stance...

The majority of the complaints are more aimed at Summoner as a whole. I'll admit that you have a pretty good handle on the way you are particularly effected by summoner in FCoB as your explanation outlines it quite well. I speak on the Job itself and it not being unique to even give it the opportunity to perform differently than ARC/SCH <---that is the main issue with summoner imho. If the class differed from SCH/ARC as SCH does from ARC, it might've been an easier fix as it would have had it's own tree to adjust without worrying that ARC/SCH may become OP in the event they change core spells for summoner...

IMO I think this is one of the main reasons they mention eliminating the class system in 3.0 so that they can make changes to Summoner without worrying of indirectly breaking SCH...

[Tonkra]

I think instead of the buffs from the Egi being party-wide, the buffs could be given to the Summoner -- similar to the Crit-Spell Speed self buff already ingame, and each Egi could offer unique buffs for the Summoner.

sorry i dont share your opinion.. as a summoner isnt firstly not known for buffs.. but their summons are (in some FF's)..

additionally it would add additional reasons to take one specific pet out concerning the situation and playstyle.. because for now, garuda is the only pet that is used for 90% of the time in pt

[Orrias]

IMO I think this is one of the main reasons they mention eliminating the class system in 3.0 so that they can make changes to Summoner without worrying of indirectly breaking SCH...

I don't know about about the development team removing the Class system for 3.0 or in the future. It's an aweful lot of content (e.g. story, cross-class abilities, dialogue) to have to omit then rework.

From my understanding of the situation, I believe Yoshi-P and his development/ production teams have kept the CLass system due to this fact, as well as saving face for the previous game director.

And yes, I too hope they uncouple SMN from the ARC/SCH trinity. As others have often stated here on these forums, SMN really is just a poorly designed after thought of a Job, with very little in the way of uniqueness (i.e. the SMN only has Fester and unique Egi's).

sorry i dont share your opinion.. as a summoner isnt firstly not known for buffs.. but their summons are (in some FF's)..

additionally it would add additional reasons to take one specific pet out concerning the situation and playstyle.. because for now, garuda is the only pet that is used for 90% of the time in pt

I'm looking at this through the guise of what is already ingame (i.e. there is already a direct pet-to-SMN buff -- pet crits = increased Spell Speed), and that's an easier proposition to be implemented into future content. What I'm saying is, that the player initiates the Egi (either via procs or manually via an ability) to apply some buff to the SMN. So, in essence, the development team would just have to add buffs to band-aide SMN woes (e.g. mp regen/ management issues, susstained dps, etc.). 3.0 would be an idela opportunity given the inclusion of new Egi's.

However, you could do as you seem to be erring toward -- give the party a buff of some sort instead. However, we've seen this before with the inclusion of the Ninja's vulnerabilty debuff. Sure it's nice, but then you end up with a more of a balancing act between Job balance, so as not to leave other Jobs barren and unable to add something as substantial to the party make-up, as well as having to design content (moreso, raid content) around it, in so much as it doesn't aforego certain mechanics of encounters (e.g. Titian-Egi and Ramuh, Bane and Black Fire debuff, etc.).

I'm not saying it's an abhorrent idea, just that I've seen in WoW how stat & ability bloat/ balance become an escalating problem which consequently has to be pruned as time goes on.

[Romsca]

I think what SE did is that the three new professions in 3.0 have neither class nor job soustone. They are fully developed when you unlock them. There are lots of way to improve the current summoner iteration without affecting acn or sch.