Iceheart Harriers - Theories

[Zohar_Lahar]

i wonder what are harriers/herretics doing in mor dhona? There's a bunch of them stationed in the prayer stone of thaliak (?)/ grave of moenbryda. Additionally, that stone not only over looks midgardsomnr it also is the same mark as tupsimati. Makes we wonder if Lady Iceheart traversed there at one point and either communicated with Midgarsomnr via echo, or so whatever?

I still don't understand why they keep rummaging around the ruins of the old camp. I must've driven them off sixty or so times by now. Then again....Fyrbryda's sister has been due to give birth for months now...

[PotatoSalad]

I still don't understand why they keep rummaging around the ruins of the old camp. I must've driven them off sixty or so times by now. Then again....Fyrbryda's sister has been due to give birth for months now...

It's Bonnie Swanson!

[Cherub]

While I do agree that Lahabrea pushed himself into a leadership role, I thought it was because his power exceeded that of others. As stated by Nabriales. So that he was basically one of the stronger Ascians (being able to interfere with us directly even with the blessing protecting us, which stated by Nabriales, he could not) and one of the more aggressive ones, seeing how Elidibus (?), the white ascian, could overcome the blessing yet was rather passive up until now and still is.

I still wonder how Shiva became a Primal. Can dead turn into primals? Or was she made a primal when she was still alive? Maybe in the moment she died, she turned into a primal? Is what happened to Loisioux (excuse my spelling if its wrong lol) the only way to turn a humanoid being into a primal? That would mean the time shiva "transformed" into lady frost, she needed a lot of prayers and a lot of aether. WHAT IF in the moment her life was over, the heretics were grieving and -praying- and that the aether in the whatever-realm-shiva-is-in-now was enough to turn her into a primal? BUT how did she disappear then again? Or it could be that I just missed the explanaton on how she became a primal.
I wish I could stirr the pot rather than guess what the ingredients are but I always start wondering.

[Zohar_Lahar]

It's not necessarily that Saint Shiva became a primal, but rather her myth and legend was summoned as one by Iceheart. It's like how the Mooglesguard manifested the legend of Good King Moggle Mog XII into existence, or the Meracydians called the memory of the first brood to counter a voidsent-powered Allagan invasion. No doubt the other beast tribe primals have a similar mythological basis, they just weren't particularly elaborated.

As for Louisoix, from what I can tell he merged with the failed summoning of the Twelve to become the primal of a Realm Reborn. Then again, perhaps Saint Shiva underwent apotheosis in a similar manner during her lifetime.

[Belhi]

I believe Nabriales mentioned that Lahabrea and Elidibus were from our world while the other Ascians weren't and that's why they can get around the blessing. Considering the similarities that the Ascians ablilities have with the Sahagin elder we fought who had the echo, it could be that Lahabrea and Elidibus were individuals gifted with the echo who were inducted into the ranks of the Ascians. Perhaps they could have even once been Warriors of Light. Elidibus certainly seems to feel that Minfilia and the PC will eventually come round to the Ascians way of thinking.

As for Shiva, I honestly don't think we know enough about the primals to be sure how particular primals come about.

[Anonymoose]

EDIT: A lot of sentiments here are about to be echoed from the post above me. Belhi beat me to it while I was writing (and nailed it).

As stated by Nabriales.

Nabriales didn't necessarily say that they had more power, but that they were different. The Blessing of Light was connected to some sort of seal that barred entry to this world from the primary group of Ascians. Lahabrea and Elidibus were not subject to the ban because they are from this world. The rest of the Ascian council originated in another, or perhaps in others.

What's going on likely has to do with the coinciding forces of transcendence on some fronts and reincarnation on others.

Taken along with the subject of dimensional compression, that should give some hints about the essential nature of the Rejoining.

from what I can tell he merged with the failed summoning of the Twelve <...> Then again, perhaps Saint Shiva underwent apotheosis

They way it was explained in Coil, Louisoix's transformation was a direct result of a coalescence of the aether that was left formless and free-floating because the ritual was interrupted, the prayers of thousands, and Louisoix's own hope that the realm be reborn. Think about it this way: there are thousands of people praying that Louisoix will save them. The aether latches onto that prayer, and (due to the content of the prayers) becomes focused on Louisoix. At the same time, Louisoix sees the world in flames and hopes that it will be reborn. A scholar, the first thing that comes to his mind is the legend of the phoenix, rising from the ashes to live again. Perhaps that's why his form didn't appear particularly bird-like right away, it needed time to set in.

I can't speak for Shiva - but the game did specify that Louisoix became a primal and Iceheart was a host vessel.

I imagine that's an important distinction.

[Cherub]

Excuse my wording! Using the word "stated" wasn't a good Idea I guess hehe.
And yea I totally forgot about King Moogle Mog XII there for a second. Which only adds to the confusion lol

[treuhavik]

I can't speak for Shiva - but the game did specify that Louisoix became a primal and Iceheart was a host vessel.

I imagine that's an important distinction.

Exactly. Which is what leads me to believe that Saint Shiva had, in fact, become a primal beforehand.

But she is clearly also blessed by Hydaelyn, aswell "hear, feel, think" and being capable of transporting herself to the light side of the rift, she may be a separate entity, similar to. but not quite like the Ascians.

She's definitely on a whole other level with the echo than the player, that's for sure. I suspect this is why she's able to do all the nifty things she does, and why everyone who cares about the echo's power within us wants to see it grow stronger.

[Belhi]

I'm not sure If I would consider Iceheart necessarily superior in the echo to our characters though she quite likely understands it better. It seems strange she would summon a primal when doing so seems counter to our actions. If anything you would think she would be more incline to work with the Scions rather than stealing from them and summoning a Primal seems completely against one of our characters main duties as the Warrior of Light.

Considering the Ascians rampant spreading of the knowledge of summoning, I get the feeling that summoning puts a lot of strain of Hydaelyn, probably cause Primals tend to feel on Aether. Summoning one plays right into the Ascians plans.

I think Iceheart's intentions are on the right path. Her methods however I suspect are flawed.

[treuhavik]

It seems strange she would summon a primal when doing so seems counter to our actions. If anything you would think she would be more incline to work with the Scions rather than stealing from them and summoning a Primal seems completely against one of our characters main duties as the Warrior of Light.

Though, just because one possesses the power of the echo doesn't mean they're a Warriors of Light, or that they're well-intentioned even. In 1.0 it was made pretty clear that echo users were using this power to serve themselves.

Considering the Ascians rampant spreading of the knowledge of summoning, I get the feeling that summoning puts a lot of strain of Hydaelyn, probably cause Primals tend to feel on Aether. Summoning one plays right into the Ascians plans.

It definitely does fatigue Hydaelyn, as shown in a certain cutscene, and that's exactly what the Ascians want. So, again, why...? More importantly, who influenced and gave her the necessary knowledge?