Suggested Improvements to Need/Greed/Pass System

[SarcasmMisser]

Actually I do need it, those lucis tools need a ton of GC seals.

[KarmaCha]

The way you want to play shouldn't have precedence over the way others want to play. Your need for a higher item level is not more important than someone else's need for seals for bombard cores, or gear to level desynth. If everyone is sacrificing their time to run the dungeon, they are just as entitled to the drops as you are, whatever they may be.

[nuyu11]

There is no limit to dungeon right?
We can keep on going to dungeon right?
Maybe need to put more effort to gain what we actually desire......

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

The system is fine as it is, I got plenty of stuff by greeding (like Levi and Shiva weapons) and if I see a weapon I want to glamour that I can need on, I am free to do so, if you want the item in question, go as that class so you can take priority over greed. How much would suck if you cleared a hard raid as your preferred class and that lovely looking piece you want just dropped and you get told "sorry, you can't have this, you already have a stronger piece"

If I want a particular piece (like the Leviathan Sword for example) and I don't wanna chance using greed, I go as a PLD. In the case of levelling it can be a bit irritating, but at the same time, some people may be in need of seals or glamour and they are in their right to need on pieces.

[EveK]

I don't understand why ppl cannot Need is "honest people"? ^^;

It's the people that CAN need but SHOULD NOT and DO NOT. Here's an example:

You're one of two tanks. A piece of tank equipment drops. The two tanks technically have the option to click Need, but the button is disabled for the other six people in the party. If either of the tanks actually wants to equip the thing, then Need of course makes sense. But if both have better and it's just going to be turned into Expert Delivery or something, all eight people should have a chance at it. If you are HONEST and click Greed because the item is not truly an upgrade for you, then you have your fair 1/8 chance.

Personally, I've been saddened recently when a thaumaturge friend running a lower-level dungeon had an upgrade drop but lost the need roll on it to some level-synced guy wearing a 120 item in the slot from World of Darkness.

[SarcasmMisser]

Lose your sense of entitlement, everyone does the work and is eligible for the rewards.

[EveK]

The way you want to play shouldn't have precedence over the way others want to play. Your need for a higher item level is not more important than someone else's need for seals for bombard cores, or gear to level desynth. If everyone is sacrificing their time to run the dungeon, they are just as entitled to the drops as you are, whatever they may be.

That is an excellent argument for getting rid of "Need" entirely so it's just Roll/Pass (perhaps allowing party leaders to voluntarily select Need/Greed/Pass if desired but sticking with Roll/Pass for Duty Finder stuff). As it stands now, though, abusing the system giving you priority based on your CLASS is very much against the concept of "not more important than someone else's need" you're advocating.

[Issachar]

I'm frequently annoyed by people abusing the flaws in this system to take advantage of honest people. Fixing people is difficult, but it would be very easy to adjust the system via development to at least properly implement what is clearly its intent.

Right now, you only get a "Need" button for a piece of equipment if it's for your class. As such, the fundamental basis of the system seems to be that you can take precedence over the rest of the group if you're the only one that would actually equip the item as your current class. It would be very easy to just compare item levels. If you're wearing a Level 120 item in your waist slot, you don't actually need that Level 80 waist item that just dropped in Labyrinth of the Ancients.

Similarly, "Need" should be entirely disabled on things like minions, crafting items, etc.

Sorry, but my desynths outweigh your item level if I'm running on the job I want the desynth loot for

[Laesha]

Yeah, couldn't disagree more. The system is perfectly fair as is - need rolls for lower ilv gear included. Your RNG is the same as my RNG. If rng decides to drop something that i can roll need on, i roll need. That's it. That's my reward for coming on that class, and I absolutely deserve it, just like you deserve the option to need on whatever class item may or may not drop for you. See how fair that is? Everyone treated exactly the same, regardless of item level, play time, or skill.

Also, as some have pointed out, people play the game with different priorities. Some players high priority is their crafting/desynth. Others care mostly about ilv. Honestly, pretty clothes is about 90% of the reason i play all the content i play. I played coil because that's how good i had to be. I played Second coil because that's how good i had to be. I'm on T13 because that's how good i have to be to collect FCoB glamours. So for me, even though i had an ilv120 chest piece when 2.5 came out, the first thing i did was suit up as WHM and dive into those new dungeons so i could roll need as soon as i saw those ilv100 healer pieces drop. Anyone could have done this. I also absolutely plan on collecting every piece of healer gear in WoD, even though by the time i get around to it i'll probably be in full dreadwyrm (yeah, it could be a ways off). There's no reason my "need" option should been disabled if i enter an instance seeking rewards for the class on which I'm playing. Special cases where someone asks very nicely do happen, and obviously loot is discussed within my static, but in general, you better believe that I plan on rolling "need" for everything i can and greed on everything i can't. I absolutely expect everyone else to do the same. If you decide not to do the same and get burned, that is 100% your problem.

[KarmaCha]

That is an excellent argument for getting rid of "Need" entirely so it's just Roll/Pass (perhaps allowing party leaders to voluntarily select Need/Greed/Pass if desired but sticking with Roll/Pass for Duty Finder stuff). As it stands now, though, abusing the system giving you priority based on your CLASS is very much against the concept of "not more important than someone else's need" you're advocating.

It is not against my argument, it is *fair* the way it is.

How is the system being abused? It's working as intended. You know what would happen if tank gear could only be greeded on? Tanks would run on "easier" classes with less responsibility and your queues would be longer. Why lead a dungeon, deal with troll dps trying to steal mobs from you, and actually have to pay attention when you could just idle while Eos heals for you, or mindlessly input your blm rotation while you follow along? People already do minimal effort in low level dungeons. The Need button is not only there to assure the gear goes to the "correct" class, it is also there to incentivize people to run on those classes. Want tank gear? Go as a tank. Want the cane from T9 but healing it is too hard for you? With your system, why would you, when you could just go as a tank and greed it with everyone else? Your odds are the same, why put in more work?

Do not complain about tanks tanking tank gear if you don't think they "need" it. If you want it, tank the dungeon. It's not up to you to decide if a piece of gear being turned into seals is less important than your ilvl, because you don't know what those seals are going to be used for. You're advocating for SE to rework their system to pander to whoever is the least geared. In a perfect world where everyone is ok with that, it's fine. But things don't work that way, and if they did try something like that, good luck running Brayflox HM, or many other dungeons, with people who are there for desynth gear, and seeing them drop the instance when they inspect you and see AF and level 49 jewelry.