Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

[Sorrik]

If you aren't doing FCoB by choice (whether you have the skill or not), you should not reap the same benefits that those who ARE putting in more effort do. Please don't even try the "How do you know FCoB is the hardest? For person X, Y, Z Sastasha Normal could be the hardest thing in the world so using the principles of General Relativity they are putting in the same effort as you are." That's horseshit and you know it. (Pardon the language. I like to color my vocabulary)

No, if you are not doing FCoB, you are not putting in the same level of effort, and you do not deserve the best gear in the game regardless of you paying the same subscription fee. The world is not an equal place, so any realistic ROLE-PLAYING game should also not be a fair or just world. I want everyone across the world to know that I hate the mentality that people outputting more in their societies should pander to those asking for handouts.

[Sorrik]

That breeds even more to develop delicate sensibilities that have no place in a world coming on the brink of over-population. I ask for handouts from time to time ... everyone does most likely, but I don't make it a habit and weave it into my mindset.

TL;DR - You weren't able to reach the highest level OR you CHOSE not to strive for the highest level ... either way, you do not DESERVE the highest rewards. Nature.

P.S. - I know you're gonna tear my argument apart. I am expecting this, and it is how I entertain myself when I am bored.

[Shiki_Lockhart]

You know... the point of this possible system happen it is to have a horizontal progress within the vertical progression.
What this means? Instead being locked to only 2 gear sets where in some cases both pieces sucks in the stats having more. I can give one example for whm: between final coil healing belt and ironworks both sucks to me if you have plenty speed already and not like you real need crit; but if there was a belt 130 with pie and det everyone would go after that belt right? I said this example but could have been other.

And at the moment we have only one raid (not counting with WoD) that has highest lvl. Once you clear you have nothing else to raid. Now if you had more choices/raids and being equally hard wouldn't be better? It would be less repetitive, more variety and more to do.

[LunnaRavenheart]

Back in my old days there were 4 sets in WoW exclusively for raiders with highest ilvl

ilvl 66 molten core
ilvl 76 bwl
ilvl 81 aq40
ilvl 88 naxx

Semi causuals can obtain
ilvl 61 zandalar
ilvl 64 cenarion

And for casuals there were
ilvl 59/62 dung set 1 / 2

4 sets which causuals arent able to obtain in vanilla with highest ilvl in game understand? And today people are crying they want same ilvl as raiders to match one and only set for raiders in game here .

[Sorrik]

Back in my old days there were 4 sets in WoW exclusively for raiders with highest ilvl

ilvl 66 molten core
ilvl 76 bwl
ilvl 81 aq40
ilvl 88 naxx

Semi causuals can obtain
ilvl 61 zandalar
ilvl 64 cenarion

And for casuals there were
ilvl 59/62 dung set 1 / 2

4 sets which causuals arent able to obtain in vanilla with highest ilvl in game understand? And today people are crying they want same ilvl as raiders to match one and only set for raiders in game here .

My mentality and position on this never-ending debate also comes from WoW vanilla. I don't like the culture of gradual equality across the board. It does not naturally exist in any environment I know of personally. I would totally like to see more variation in gear sets, but the iLvls need to stick with those that earned them in the hardest difficulty. You don't give 2nd place people the 1st place prize. Participation ribbons are the literal definition of the word Ridiculous IMO.

[Nel_Celestine]

snip

Page two, near the bottom. All I asked was for this not to turn into another "casuals don't need anything above i90 gear" and frankly, that's exactly what this topic turned into. By the statement I quoted above, non-raiders should only have just hit i100 in patch 2.5 because i90 is the entry requirement for the newest dungeons and WoD.

It was the same last catch up patch. "You shouldn't be allowed to upgrade." "you /have/ to do coil" "stop asking for hand outs."

If the raiding community would get their heads out of their asses for 5 minutes and actually see what people are suggesting and requesting here maybe they might agree with the idea. Another option for upgrading? Something else to do besides coil and hunts to improve? Horizontal progression? TERRIBLE IDEAS!!! Scrap everything and make MORE RAIDS ONLY!! Take away Hildibrand! Make dungeons speedrun only! Force everyone to have parsers so we can kick anyone not doing absolute max DPS!

People wonder why I stopped raiding hardcore...

[randysquirrel]

My issue is not with who gets what get, but making i130 so easily available to everyone, gives everyone the false impression this makes them good.
Yesterday set up a titan pony farm in PF. Go in, and as is completely standard, despite being a farm, the 100 tomes msg appears. Ask who's new. Guy says "I haven't cleared but I'm i128 and know fight!". Dies on first plume.

ilvl USED to be a way to differentiate between who was at a standard you wanted in your party. Now it has no bearing on anything. Bring on the in-game parser (oddly the non-raiders are the ones that oppose this)

[Sorrik]

@ Nel_Celestine

If you had the foresight to say that sentence on page 2 towards the bottom at all, then you are intelligent enough to know that this topic was INEVITABLY going to get to that point. I was not the person who took it there, by the way; I am only adding my two cents to the 11 pages of readable material. I pointed out a neglected post, and you are actually misrepresenting all of what I said. I did NOT say that I am opposed to "Another option for upgrading"; I encourage that. There should be more gear sets for casuals AND raiders. What I said, in 3 separate posts due to length (sorry), was that the people putting in the effort to complete the HARDEST content (which FCoB is currently) are the only ones that deserve the TOP tier gear. Look to what LunnaRavenheart said this page.

[Sorrik]

4 sets for those unwilling or unable to conquer the hardest material in the game. 4 sets for those who did manage to accomplish something. The keyword in that last sentence is 'accomplish' ... stop asking for the same iLvl when you did NOT accomplish the same difficulty of content.

Again, for the record, I didn't take this thread here. I am merely perpetuating it (which is probably equally as bad, but I am aware of that).

[Nel_Celestine]

4 sets for those unwilling or unable to conquer the hardest material in the game. 4 sets for those who did manage to accomplish something. The keyword in that last sentence is 'accomplish' ... stop asking for the same iLvl when you did NOT accomplish the same difficulty of content.

Again, for the record, I didn't take this thread here. I am merely perpetuating it (which is probably equally as bad, but I am aware of that).

that right there is the problem. So the only people allowed to feel good about themselves or accomplished are the hardcore elite raiders. Not say, someone new last week who just beat their First Titan HM or maybe even Titan EX because that's old outdated content and thus not raid content?

ugh. It's really honestly like all raiders want these days are not the challenge but to go "look what I have that you don't. worship me and kiss my feet you filthy losers."