Viability of a Spell Speed WHM set up?

[Donjo]

Except, y'know, having enough Piety to comfortably heal for many minutes of constant fighting, or a Scholar's unchallenged need for Crit rate...

Piety's not a Secondary. I would argue that it is a full on Primary Stat. I didn't factor it into that statement.

When I said "meaningless", I meant this for the reason I stated in a further sentence: if you had zero of every secondary, content wouldn't be any more difficult. Healers have such high potency skills that main stats alone get their heals well above what they need to be. The only thing Secondaries can be observed to do on a healer is help to save someone from death with pure, dumb luck. Any skilled healer stops needing them very quickly.

Spell Speed: You might save someone with a split second heal, but it's rare. It's more effective to pre-cast anyway.
Crit: You might save someone with a clutch critical, but it's rare. You should fight battles assuming that you will never crit in the first place because it's bad to rely on RNG. Thus, most crits end up being overheals anyway.
Det: You might save someone because that Cure healed for 50 more than usual, but it's rare.

All of these situations should be avoided entirely in the first place.

Now, Piety. I consider a stat to be "Primary" if it is evident that not having enough of it will cause you to be physically unable to complete content. Thus, I consider the following stats to be Primary, in whatever capacity the various jobs use them: Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Intelligence, Mind, Piety, and Accuracy.

[KikoriL]

Piety's not a Secondary. I would argue that it is a full on Primary Stat. I didn't factor it into that statement.

Until they add Piety to every single piece of casting gear in the game (of level to have it) and consequently remove it as an option in relic customization, it's a secondary stat. Just an odd one that you can dump a free +30 into as you level up.

[Donjo]

Critiques

So sub-optimal play ended up leading to a victory anyway? Guess we'd better start sending petitions to SE, because the game's obviously too easy.

Until they add Piety to every single piece of casting gear in the game (of level to have it) and consequently remove it as an option in relic customization, it's a secondary stat. Just an odd one that you can dump a free +30 into as you level up.

Oh, okay. What's going on here is that we're operating on different definitions of what different stats are. Here's how I look at the whole picture, for an exact reference.

Main Stat: The stat deemed most important for a particular role. This is illustrated by the stat being present on every piece of gear intended for that role, ie. that role can Need roll on it if it drops in a dungeon.
Tanks: VIT
Healers: MND
Casters: INT
Melee: STR
Ranged/NIN: DEX

Damage Stat: The stat which primarily determines a job's skill potency. The only jobs which have separated Main and Damage Stats are Tanks.
Tanks/Melee: STR
Healers: MND
Casters: INT
Ranged/NIN: DEX

Primary Stat: The subset of stats important enough to roles who use them that not having enough of them will prevent the completion of content.
All Main and Damage Stats, for obvious reasons.
Piety: Not having enough MP leads to being out of MP which leads to death.
Accuracy: Not having enough accuracy leads to misses which leads to not enough DPS.

Secondary Stat: Stats which allow players to nudge their own playstyles in particular directions. While there are combinations which produce superior results over others, they will not make or break one's ability to complete content.
Determination
Critical Hit Rate
Skill Speed
Spell Speed

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

So sub-optimal play ended up leading to a victory anyway? Guess we'd better start sending petitions to SE, because the game's obviously too easy.

There's a difference between playing sub-optimal and being a liability. If you actually read the list, you would have noticed there are mechanic derps in there as well, not just class aspects.

And yes, the game is actually easy. Simply because every "hard" content is heavily mechanic based that is also scripted. It even gets significantly easier the more gear the group gets as it makes the incoming- and outgoing damage more forgiving (DPS checks) and eases up the healing game. But liabilities in a static group would stagger the progress, gear or no gear. It's not exactly fair towards others either by playing it half-assed (and possibly causing wipes) while others are giving it their all.

inb4 "why are you playing this if it's so easy": A game doesn't have to be hard to be enjoyable.

Personally, though, I love Determination. I choose it as a main secondary when I can. Spell Speed is next. I love moments when I'm casting, need to move, and cure still trigger.

You don't need spell speed for this to happen

[Donjo]

There's a difference between playing sub-optimal and being a liability. If you actually read the list, you would have noticed there are mechanic derps in there as well, not just class aspects.

And yes, the game is actually easy. Simply because every "hard" content is heavily mechanic based that is also scripted. It even gets significantly easier the more gear the group gets as it makes the incoming- and outgoing damage more forgiving (DPS checks) and eases up the healing game. But liabilities in a static group would stagger the progress, gear or no gear. It's not exactly fair towards others either by playing it half-assed (and possibly causing wipes) while others are giving it their all.

I would say that there are four classes of play.

Perfect: Not a single mistake was made. You played your class to the absolute peak of its ability and nailed every mechanic in your sleep. This is functionally impossible to reach consistently.
Optimal: You played very well. There were some small mistakes, but none of them caused any particular danger. If the majority of your party is playing this way, a win is easy.
Not Optimal: You made some mistakes, sure. However, you didn't screw up on anything that would have gotten the party killed upon failure. A win is possible even if your entire party is here, but it's the minimum level of skill to not be a liability.
Liability: Your party didn't win the fight, and it's your fault.

So, there is a difference between Not Optimal and a Liability: One of them still wins the fight. As long as the Not Optimal person(s) is trying to improve, things will be alright. From the sounds of things, the person you are attacking clearly is trying to improve. Caustic criticism helps nobody.

Please refer to this page to get an idea of the kind of person you're currently being on these forums. Perfection isn't necessary in this game and it hopefully never will be. It is simply not appropriate to sneer down at people for not being perfect. It could be justified if you did consistently play perfectly, but the very nature of being human undermines this ability. As long as you are capable of making a mistake, it's wrong to viciously attack others for making them too.

[VanilleFang]

snip

I think Lyrica's point, as she kind of pointed out already, was that the user posted the video to prove they weren't a "scrubby" healer, and that they were trying to seemingly brag about their T10 clear. Lyrica pointed out that her video didn't prove anything, and gave her information on how to better her T10 run.

So the main point Lyrica was trying to make was that she claimed she wan't a scrubby healer but posted a video that prove the exact opposite. Though I may be wrong.

And I kind of have to disagree with your list. A liability doesn't mean they will cause your team to lose. A liability is anyone who is not doing their job to the fullest, or is being lazy, and is just making everyone else's job harder. You can still win but it will a lot harder than with someone who was not a liability.

An example would be if you were to queue into ST and find that your fellow healer is doing very little, or nothing at all. They are a liability. You can still win, by solo healing, but it will be far more difficult. This is not "Not Optimal", this is a liability.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Please refer to this page to get an idea of the kind of person you're currently being on these forums. Perfection isn't necessary in this game and it hopefully never will be. It is simply not appropriate to sneer down at people for not being perfect. It could be justified if you did consistently play perfectly, but the very nature of being human undermines this ability. As long as you are capable of making a mistake, it's wrong to viciously attack others for making them too.

You're mistaken here on several levels. VanilleFang already explained most of it (thanks), so I'll just skip to whatever is remaining. You believe that I think perfection is necessary. Where did I claim that? Or even anywhere between the lines. You're mistaking "perfection" with "effort". There are people who put effort into things and those who don't. Not putting in effort while the rest of your group is, I find that extremely disrespectful. And on each side of the coin there are extremities: Elitists and scrubs. That link refers to what kind of person you are on the forums, by the way.

[VanilleFang]

snip

Your welcome. I just wanted to make it clear that you weren't being an elitist or whatever in any way. You supply a lot of helpful information on this forum so, from what I've seen on here, I know you aren't one.

Now I'm really getting off topic. lol