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  1. #1
    Player
    Estellios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    4,250
    Character
    Yoso Carrasco
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 77
    WHM secondary stats are literally personal preference.
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Estellios View Post
    WHM secondary stats are literally personal preference.
    Exactly. Secondaries on a healer are literally meaningless. I'm sure you've heard before that skill trumps gear, and this is most evident on a healer. You could have zero of every Secondary and do just fine at everything. You wanna Spell Speed? Go for it!
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    KikoriL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    200
    Character
    Kikori Lyehga
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Exactly. Secondaries on a healer are literally meaningless.
    Except, y'know, having enough Piety to comfortably heal for many minutes of constant fighting, or a Scholar's unchallenged need for Crit rate...
    (5)

  4. #4
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by KikoriL View Post
    Except, y'know, having enough Piety to comfortably heal for many minutes of constant fighting, or a Scholar's unchallenged need for Crit rate...
    Piety's not a Secondary. I would argue that it is a full on Primary Stat. I didn't factor it into that statement.

    When I said "meaningless", I meant this for the reason I stated in a further sentence: if you had zero of every secondary, content wouldn't be any more difficult. Healers have such high potency skills that main stats alone get their heals well above what they need to be. The only thing Secondaries can be observed to do on a healer is help to save someone from death with pure, dumb luck. Any skilled healer stops needing them very quickly.

    Spell Speed: You might save someone with a split second heal, but it's rare. It's more effective to pre-cast anyway.
    Crit: You might save someone with a clutch critical, but it's rare. You should fight battles assuming that you will never crit in the first place because it's bad to rely on RNG. Thus, most crits end up being overheals anyway.
    Det: You might save someone because that Cure healed for 50 more than usual, but it's rare.

    All of these situations should be avoided entirely in the first place.

    Now, Piety. I consider a stat to be "Primary" if it is evident that not having enough of it will cause you to be physically unable to complete content. Thus, I consider the following stats to be Primary, in whatever capacity the various jobs use them: Strength, Dexterity, Vitality, Intelligence, Mind, Piety, and Accuracy.
    (1)
    Last edited by Donjo; 02-08-2015 at 11:15 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    KikoriL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    200
    Character
    Kikori Lyehga
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Piety's not a Secondary. I would argue that it is a full on Primary Stat. I didn't factor it into that statement.
    Until they add Piety to every single piece of casting gear in the game (of level to have it) and consequently remove it as an option in relic customization, it's a secondary stat. Just an odd one that you can dump a free +30 into as you level up.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Donjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    980
    Character
    A'lyhhia Tahz
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine View Post
    Critiques
    So sub-optimal play ended up leading to a victory anyway? Guess we'd better start sending petitions to SE, because the game's obviously too easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by KikoriL View Post
    Until they add Piety to every single piece of casting gear in the game (of level to have it) and consequently remove it as an option in relic customization, it's a secondary stat. Just an odd one that you can dump a free +30 into as you level up.
    Oh, okay. What's going on here is that we're operating on different definitions of what different stats are. Here's how I look at the whole picture, for an exact reference.

    Main Stat: The stat deemed most important for a particular role. This is illustrated by the stat being present on every piece of gear intended for that role, ie. that role can Need roll on it if it drops in a dungeon.
    Tanks: VIT
    Healers: MND
    Casters: INT
    Melee: STR
    Ranged/NIN: DEX

    Damage Stat: The stat which primarily determines a job's skill potency. The only jobs which have separated Main and Damage Stats are Tanks.
    Tanks/Melee: STR
    Healers: MND
    Casters: INT
    Ranged/NIN: DEX

    Primary Stat: The subset of stats important enough to roles who use them that not having enough of them will prevent the completion of content.
    All Main and Damage Stats, for obvious reasons.
    Piety: Not having enough MP leads to being out of MP which leads to death.
    Accuracy: Not having enough accuracy leads to misses which leads to not enough DPS.

    Secondary Stat: Stats which allow players to nudge their own playstyles in particular directions. While there are combinations which produce superior results over others, they will not make or break one's ability to complete content.
    Determination
    Critical Hit Rate
    Skill Speed
    Spell Speed
    (0)
    Last edited by Donjo; 02-09-2015 at 10:25 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Lyrica_Ashtine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,132
    Character
    Sadako Yamamura
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    So sub-optimal play ended up leading to a victory anyway? Guess we'd better start sending petitions to SE, because the game's obviously too easy.
    There's a difference between playing sub-optimal and being a liability. If you actually read the list, you would have noticed there are mechanic derps in there as well, not just class aspects.

    And yes, the game is actually easy. Simply because every "hard" content is heavily mechanic based that is also scripted. It even gets significantly easier the more gear the group gets as it makes the incoming- and outgoing damage more forgiving (DPS checks) and eases up the healing game. But liabilities in a static group would stagger the progress, gear or no gear. It's not exactly fair towards others either by playing it half-assed (and possibly causing wipes) while others are giving it their all.

    inb4 "why are you playing this if it's so easy": A game doesn't have to be hard to be enjoyable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Berry View Post
    Personally, though, I love Determination. I choose it as a main secondary when I can. Spell Speed is next. I love moments when I'm casting, need to move, and cure still trigger.
    You don't need spell speed for this to happen
    (2)
    Last edited by Lyrica_Ashtine; 02-09-2015 at 11:43 PM.

  8. #8
    Player
    Jim_Berry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Bloomington, Indiana
    Posts
    1,595
    Character
    Jim Berry
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KikoriL View Post
    Except, y'know, having enough Piety to comfortably heal for many minutes of constant fighting, or a Scholar's unchallenged need for Crit rate...
    When I was minimum iLv for Snowcloak when it first released, I spammed Divine Seal and Shroud. Kept me on my toes, but some people wouldn't know I was low iLv at the time until they examined me lol...
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Tranquil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    416
    Character
    Rin Shiraishi
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Secondaries on a healer are literally meaningless.
    They are not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    I'm sure you've heard before that skill trumps gear, and this is most evident on a healer.
    Now, this I do agree with.

    OP, you could go for SPSP for fun but it's not a good stat. If you intend to chain cast DPS-spells, go ahead. However, for your healing game SPSP has very little effect as healing in this game is very timing-based with little to no chain casting necessary. When you are not chain casting, you are not really getting anything out of SPSP. That marginally faster Cure II won't be helpful because, y'know, you could have timed it perfectly anyway via precasting with some thought. :')

    There're tons of SPSP-related topics on this forum and the efficacy or lack thereof has been exhausted in previous topics, whilst some still advocate SPSP.

    TL;DR: WHM is your offspec, have fun with it and do as you please.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    FoxyAreku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    2,889
    Character
    Areku Foxfire
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjo View Post
    Exactly. Secondaries on a healer are literally meaningless.
    Please don't ever play a scholar.

    A scholar without crit is super meh.
    (0)

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