3rd Retainer by Default, please?

[Intaki]

You could argue that it makes it easier for a player to earn gil on the market boards, but at the end of the day the player still has to work with the game to obtain the gil, it's not automatic. So it's not an advantage, it's a convenience for the player.

A player with two retainers (fully leveled in DoL classes) can leverage those retainers to make 200k+ per day on average (and that's a conservative estimate). A player with three retainers can make 300k+ with the same investment of time and effort.

What advantage has their extra gil afforded them? A large house and the ability to purchase some decent overmelded gear that was quickly made obsolete by the next patch.

By that logic we should be allowed to buy Coil gear from vendors.

Also, you should never, ever need to farm venture tokens if you're doing your daily roulettes. Turning in gear for seals makes keeping ventures in stock utterly trivial.

[Kosmos992k]

A player with two retainers (fully leveled in DoL classes) can leverage those retainers to make 200k+ per day on average (and that's a conservative estimate). A player with three retainers can make 300k+ with the same investment of time and effort.

No you can't do it with the same investment of time. 4 retainers use twice the number of ventures as 2 retainers, so you will need to obtain the ventures. You'll double your time investment to get the ventures for that, so it's hardly the same time and effort is it?

I never said you needed to farm ventures. The point I was making is that the player can chose to do something that earns ventures in order to fuel their retainers actions, or they can chose to gather/farm whatever items themselves, or craft, or do something else entirely. It's the player's decision how they spend their time, and if they wish to play content that rewards them with ventures, then they can use their retainers. If not, they can't. It's not like the retainers automatically generat gil or can obtain ventures for each other.

I don't think you get it. Earning gil is part of gameplay. Owning a house is gameplay. Just because you deem it unnecessary doesn't make it not gameplay. We're playing a video-game, all aspects of the game is unnecessary. A person can play happily for their entire time in ffxiv without even touching anything past level 50 on battle classes. They are still playing the game and still care about the advantages and disadvantages in the aspects that they are a part of.

I don't think you get it. The amount of gil a player has depends on the player's actions. Retainers do not automatically generate income for the player, the player must make use of them to do so. Acquiring gil is a consequence of multiple activities within the game, and not specific to the use of a retainer to sell items on the market board. The retainer itself does nothing but stand there when called, the player has to actually do something to use the retainer as a tool to earn gil.

It seems like you and others want to use the fact that 4 retainers lets you put more things up on the market board at once, or that through ventures you can use 4 retainers to gather 4 times the items - which in turn leads to more income. The thing is, you have to have things to sell on the market board to use your 4 retainers, and you have to earn the ventures needed to send retainers out gathering/farming. It's entirely dependent on the effort that the player puts into it.

Yes, having more retainers will reduce the time taken to earn gil selling items - assuming that you have the items to sell. Since you have double the number of retainers you need double the number of items to sell to realize the larger income you say will be generated. Those items do not come from no where, they come as a consequence of what the player does. The retainers do not offer an inherent advantage in earning gil. You do not earn any more per venture used or item sold, it alters nothing about that at all.

You say that's all game play, fine it's all game play, but does me having 4 retainers mean I can sell things for twice the price of someone else? Does it mean that I get a discount on the number of ventures needed for sending my retainers out? Of course it doesn't, so where is the advantage?

[Intaki]

I never said you needed to farm ventures. The point I was making is that the player can chose to do something that earns ventures in order to fuel their retainers actions, or they can chose to gather/farm whatever items themselves, or craft, or do something else entirely.

There is literally no activity in this game outside of plain old crafting that does not carry the potential to reward you with ventures. Leves reward ventures, hunts reward seals which reward ventures, FATEs reward seals which reward ventures, dungeons/raids reward gear which reward seals which reward ventures. If you're not swimming in either Allied/GC seals or ventures themselves, you're not playing the game.

You say that's all game play, fine it's all game play, but does me having 4 retainers mean I can sell things for twice the price of someone else?

No, you just acquire them at twice the speed.

[Kosmos992k]

No, you just acquire them at twice the speed.

Twine the number of retainers require twice the number of ventures to use to maximum effect, that requires a time investment from the player. Rationalize it however you like the truth is the truth. In my opinion there is no inherent advantage to having 1 or 2 paid retainers since everything that can be accomplished with them is completely dependent on player action.

[Intaki]

Twine the number of retainers require twice the number of ventures to use to maximum effect

Which would matter if ventures weren't utterly trivial to acquire.

But while you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. And the fact is that a person with four retainers can conjure into existence items of high value at twice the speed as a person with two.

[Kosmos992k]

Which would matter if ventures weren't utterly trivial to acquire.

But while you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. And the fact is that a person with four retainers can conjure into existence items of high value at twice the speed as a person with two.

That 'conjuring' of high value items is, as far as I can remember, dependent on using ventures and being smiled upon by the RNG...hardly an automatic thing eh?

To echo your words...But while you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts. And the fact is that additional retainers do not in any way alter your abilities in the game, nor do retainers create anything on their own, they require the player to do something.

[Atomnium]

/supporting a free third retainer.
Storing more items is giving us a lot of headaches, lately I just started to simply toss away my leviathan weapons, because... Full is full and some old stuffs can't be exchanged for seals or even stored in the armoire :x

[Intaki]

That 'conjuring' of high value items is, as far as I can remember, dependent on using ventures and being smiled upon by the RNG...hardly an automatic thing eh?

Quick ventures are for gambling addicts and newbies. The real money is in Mining/Botnay ventures, which give guaranteed returns on specific items which can be sold for a premium.

And again, you ignore the basic truth that extra retainers do change gameplay; specifically, they double the rate of acquisition and thus the rate of income a player with only two retainers can hope to achieve. That is a significant gameplay advantage.