there's a lot of sensitive people in this game

[Kirana]

snip

The problem with your argument is that Healer DPS is vitally important for raid progression. It is absolutely NOT only meant for solo leveling; that's just an absurd statement. Adding extra DPS is part of a healer's job in this game. It is not part of their "role" perse, but being "good" at your job involves doing everything in your power to improve the success of your group.

Can you beat content with a BRD that never uses songs? Yes. Are they a good BRD? No.

Can you beat content with a WAR that never applies Storm's Eye? Yes. Are they a good WAR? No.

Can you beat content with a WHM that never applies Aero? Yes. Are they a good WHM? No.

Can you beat content with a X that never uses Y? Yes. Are they a good X? No.

The moment you deny yourself the use of an ability that could potentially increase your success, you become worse at your job. You're not "good" at your job unless you're willing to make use of everything available to you.

[Kirana]

Another major hole in your argument is that SE added accuracy to all endgame healer gear. The only purpose of that is to allow Healers to DPS more effectively in post-50 party content.

[Zoralink]

The moment you deny yourself the use of an ability that could potentially increase your success, you become worse at your job. You're not "good" at your job unless you're willing to make use of everything available to you.

This is something that always boggles people's minds when I explain my mentality regarding the roles and how I view them.

I hate to DPS most of the time. Occasionally I'll do black mage for giggles, (IE: Once a month if that.) and very rarely bard, but overall, I straight up dislike DPSing. But I'm also always trying to do as much damage as possible when healing. Not because I like DPSing, not because I like to see big numbers (I'm a scholar! Moar DoTs!) but because it makes me a much, much better player. It's not even "DPSing" persay, the way I explain it to people who are confused when I say I hate DPS but like to do damage as a scholar is that it's simply another tool in my toolkit. Just as sacred soil, succor, adlo, e4e, etc are tools, so too is my ability to efficiently weave in damage and allow my co-healer in raids to do the same. (And to just do it myself outside of raids, IE dungeons.)


Sure, if people want to be pedantic and say "Nobody died!" then the healer did their job. That's if you want to keep an incredibly narrow minded outlook and refuse to fully utilize a job. Yes, there may be extenuating circumstances such as horrendous latency, but on the whole I would very much consider it a part of a healer's "job" to do damage as much as possible.

That doesn't mean you have to do it 100% of the time and be perfect at it. But when I see healers who refuse to DPS because "they're a healer" it just irritates me. That is tantamount to saying "I have no desire to improve despite it helping my group immensely when I do so."


/babbling

Also @topic: Yes, people are way, way too sensitive in this game. Unfortunately with the consistent nerfs and overgearing, SE very much supports players not being good at their roles, let alone excelling at them.

[Chambers]

Do, do doo.
Yeah yeah yeah yeah

We wonder are you ready to join us now?
Hands in the air we will show you how
Come and try
Caramell will be your guide
So come and move your hips sing
Oh-wa-ah-ah
Look at your two hips do it
La la la
You and me can sing this melody
Oa-oa-a ♪ ♪ ♪

[lvlagmarink]

Can you beat content with a BRD that never uses songs? Yes. Are they a good BRD? No.

Can you beat content with a WAR that never applies Storm's Eye? Yes. Are they a good WAR? No.

Can you beat content with a WHM that never applies Aero? Yes. Are they a good WHM? No.

Can you beat content with a X that never uses Y? Yes. Are they a good X? No.

Do you know that when you put a standard to make things being good or bad can lead to ridiculous statement?

Have you tried to move closer to improve your latency? No.. Are you a bad player? Yes

Have you tried playing 24/7 so you can improve your character more? No.. Are you a bad player? Yes

The moment you refuse to do something that can improve your gameplay means you are a BAD BAD player.. There is a reason why SE put server somewhere so you can move closer to it and there is a reason why the game server is up like almost 24/7 so you can play it 24/7..

\o/ i love it being a very bad player..

[Zoralink]

Do you know that when you put a standard to make things being good or bad can lead to ridiculous statement?

Have you tried to move closer to improve your latency? No.. Are you a bad player? Yes

Have you tried playing 24/7 so you can improve your character more? No.. Are you a bad player? Yes

The moment you refuse to do something that can improve your gameplay means you are a BAD BAD player.. There is a reason why SE put server somewhere so you can move closer to it and there is a reason why the game server is up like almost 24/7 so you can play it 24/7..

\o/ i love it being a very bad player..

The very basis of your argument is taking a slippery slope... and making it worse, which is pretty hilarious.

People aren't saying that there aren't always technical ways you can improve your play.

But when people are refusing, within the confines, limitations, rules, and gameplay to do things that are better for the group, they are actively choosing to be a worse player overall. End of story.

Don't try to be a little drama queen to garner pity. It's really irritating, to say the least.

[lvlagmarink]

But when people are refusing, within the confines, limitations, rules, and gameplay to do things that are better for the group, they are actively choosing to be a worse player overall. End of story.

It's not end of story when some specific people or group are the one who put up the standard of confines, limitations, rules, and gameplay and calling people who arent up to their own standard as simply being bad..

Dont try to put up standard despite when you are part of the community, that doesnt make you the sole voice of the community.. For all i know you're encountering randoms, heck if people put up standards on internal group, that's their business.. Respect the randoms like you should know their preference..

[Zoralink]

~snip~

This isn't a standards thing. It's very, very much an objective thing. If someone is capable of doing more with their job and they actively refuse to do so, they are a worse player than someone who chooses to take advantage of those moments.

End of story.

There is no 'set of standards' for this, as it's very much obvious when it happens.

Dont try to put up standard despite when you are part of the community, that doesnt make you the sole voice of the community.. For all i know you're encountering randoms, heck if people put up standards on internal group, that's their business.. Respect the randoms like you should know their preference..

What are you even saying here? It's not like I'm going around going "OMG NUB" every time I see a healer not DPS, but on the flip side it's also well within my rights to be mildly annoyed if they refuse to DPS while not healing for 10+ seconds.

[LionKing]

If someone is capable of doing more with their job and they actively refuse to do so, they are a worse player than someone who chooses to take advantage of those moments

Question to you: How do you know if someone is capable of doing more with their jobs when it is your first time as well as maybe the only time you have a chance to play with them? Have you ever questioned yourself that? Sure the job is capable more of just for healing but to effectively use those potential to its fullest, not everyone can do the same, you know?

It is just like: There is CEO out there who earns million dollars every minute, they are Human right? And so that proves Human is capable of earning million dollars every minute. You are also Human right? Then we should assume you are capable of earning million dollars every minute, and since you actively refuse to earn million dollars every minute for as long as you live , you are the worse human than someone who chooses to take advantage of their moments??? And with that being said, it is also well within my rights to be mildly annoyed if you refuse to earn million dollars every minute for the last X years you have been living and for many years to come???

Seems legit to me.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

Question to you: How do you know if someone is capable of doing more with their jobs.

Let's take the general and pull this conversation back to the specific.

but they stood there even when nobody needed healing. . . .

In this scenario, that is the answer to your question. Because the healer was standing around doing nothing.

Was Chris (OP) trying to kick the healer for underperforming? NO. He was kicked, for asking the WHM to use a Damage based ability. Not even rude or sarcastically.