White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Brightshadow]

I don't really understand why everyone thinks WHMs need more MP stuff. The only issues I've run into with MP issues is either with Holy Spam, Rezz spam, or death.

And Bene doesn't really need to be changed. I don't find the "lag" on it to be an issue at all. It's not that hard to figure out, and it's easier to just ignore the animation all together. Or see it as a very, very short cast time.

Well there two reasons for this, first off the MP management of a White Mage is limited while a Scholar can run things without many MP issue not just because of the recast of our shroud but also because of the potency and because they have energy drain.

As for the bene. we have 2 unfair advantages vs the scholar lust. first off they get 3 lust every minute which is basically like a bene., and our recast is much higher than lust. And to top it off they don't have animation lag so if the tank is at 10% health they have a better chance of saving them with lust. than our bene.

And your also forgetting that Scholar has two healers when it comes to themselves and eos so they are basically gods when compared to white mages and anyone that thinks overwise is crazy because white mage will never be able to compete with a equal ilv scholar unless the battle requires a lot of AOE healing. The only reason why White Mages aren't replaced is like said in the thread x 2 scholar don't work very well and we only have 2 healing classes but with astrologian that could be the death of white mage.

[VanilleFang]

snip

That may be true, about Benediction cast time, but its still on the WHM for casting it too late. You completely glossed over that Lustrates heal 25% health (3 = 75% not 100%) and they use Aetherflow. This may not seem that bad as "omg they can spam 6 in a row (depending on aetherflow CD)" or whatever, but Aetherflow is used for Bane and Sacred Soul as well. Lustrate may be instacast and such but I feel its balanced out well. I wouldn't be against a buff to Benediction though.


That's the point though, WHM is a much better AoE healer. They heal the group much better than a SCH could ever hope too.

And again people are making assumptions that Astrologian will be like a WHM more than a SCH, or just something different that works well with both so thus WHM is out (?). I could easily say that Astrologian could come in and be the death of SCH, by being the strongest Single Target healer and they could have strong party buffs and a mitigation shield. Chances are they won't be like this, but I can still say it.

Saying SCHs are like "gods" is a HUGE exaggeration. If they are so much better than WHM then why are there so many more WHMs compared to SCHs running around? Mechanics? Shouldn't matter, because they are "gods".

Also, why would it be the death of either? If people are going to play it'll still be around. Look at Summoner right now. Its lacking and people don't like where its at right now, but its still around and people still use it even though there are better DPS(ie. all of them) currently.

[Cynfael]

Snip

You're replying to the same person who started a huge, contentious thread about whether or not Cleric Stance should be disabled for group PvE content; expecting a fair and reasonable assessment of how the healer jobs compare to one another is probably asking too much.

That probably isn't the nicest way to say it, but I'm not very sympathetic to people who go on about WHM's supposed MP problems (good WHM's don't have them under normal circumstances) and lack of ability compared to SCH (SCH may be able to split heal and off-DPS like crazy, but 300-550 upfront potency AoE heals to recover the raid in time to deal with the next mechanic? Not so much).

[Nyrii]

.

Obviously you don't know what you are talking about.
t6 requier aoe healing (maybe not nowadays, difficulty lowered)
t7 requier aoe healing (maybe not nowadays, difficulty lowered)
t8 requier aoe healing (lowered)
t9 requier aoe healing (lowered)
t10 requier aoe healing
t11 require aoe healing
t12 require aoe healing
t13 require aoe healing
Please, compare Lustrate to cur2, not to bene ...
MP management is what make WHM fun to play ...
Maybe when you hit the real difficulty on coil you will be able to see that SCH and WHM are equal...

[Sebazy]

The only reason why White Mages aren't replaced is like said in the thread x 2 scholar don't work very well

Double SCH is no more lacking than double PLD, yet whilst double PLD was pretty much the accepted standard for coil1, I'm yet to be asked to do a coil clear as double SCH. Strange given how 'superior' SCH is supposed to be?

*spoiler*

The reason you don't see progression groups running with 2x SCH is because the job is weak when it comes to AE healing, that little area where WHMs excel so well. If Astro comes along and turns out to be another mighty AE centric healer, then yes, WHM's might need to start worrying, but I highly doubt that's going to happen, The only thing that's fairly certain about the job in my book is that it's likely to be a stronger debuffer than SCH or WHM.

[DarkmoonVael]

Well there two reasons for this, first off the MP management of a White Mage is limited while a Scholar can run things without many MP issue not just because of the recast of our shroud but also because of the potency and because they have energy drain.

As for the bene. we have 2 unfair advantages vs the scholar lust. first off they get 3 lust every minute which is basically like a bene., and our recast is much higher than lust. And to top it off they don't have animation lag so if the tank is at 10% health they have a better chance of saving them with lust. than our bene.

And your also forgetting that Scholar has two healers when it comes to themselves and eos so they are basically gods when compared to white mages and anyone that thinks overwise is crazy because white mage will never be able to compete with a equal ilv scholar unless the battle requires a lot of AOE healing. The only reason why White Mages aren't replaced is like said in the thread x 2 scholar don't work very well and we only have 2 healing classes but with astrologian that could be the death of white mage.

Lustrate is not benediction, it is cure 2. Try lustrate on a non tank. In final coil, scholars simply do not get the luxury of using every stack of aetherflow on lustrate, and shock horror, scholar in final coils has mana issues. Try having to dps stance dancing whilst heaing in final coils to push progress and see how much harder mana management can be on a sch when played fully optimally at end game.

Energy drain is a moot point, it is a scholar skill, every other skill that uses aetherflow charges in final coil is so much more significantly important that you will rarely use energy drain.

Scholars have to make a choice about which fairy to use in which situation, in final coils its usually selene>eos, this being the case its a scholar running without a healing buff, an aoe healing spell, an aoe party damage reduction spell and quite possibly, without the ability to manually cast selenes embrace. Saying that scholars are healing gods above whm due to having a fairy is disingenuous beyond belief.

Sch and whm, when played optimally, are as good as each other. I raid as sch, main whm. In a raid i am not so blind as to see what the whm is doing with their extremely powerful aoe heals and regen. This thread should have died off a long long long long long time ago. Far too many unbalanced arguments here of why healer X is better than healer Y. If one was truely so much more superior than the other, then raid groups would only be taking 2 of one type of healer into their raids......but they are not, and both are very very very good healers. Blinkers off people.....blinkers off.

[VanilleFang]

You're replying to the same person who started a huge, contentious thread about whether or not Cleric Stance should be disabled for group PvE content; expecting a fair and reasonable assessment of how the healer jobs compare to one another is probably asking too much.

That probably isn't the nicest way to say it, but I'm not very sympathetic to people who go on about WHM's supposed MP problems (good WHM's don't have them under normal circumstances) and lack of ability compared to SCH (SCH may be able to split heal and off-DPS like crazy, but 300-550 upfront potency AoE heals to recover the raid in time to deal with the next mechanic? Not so much).

Oh. Is that who that is? I had no idea.

Ha. Well, that was a waste of time.

[Slib]

... and lack of ability compared to SCH (SCH may be able to split heal and off-DPS like crazy, but 300-550 upfront potency AoE heals to recover the raid in time to deal with the next mechanic? Not so much).

What? Succor is an up front 150 potency heal, with a 150 shield. take that shield as preparing for disaster to come soon. Also the ability to mitigate 10% of the damage dealt from AoE with a sacred soil. Depending on how much damage the group took, that could act as another 150 potency ( around 5000 damage mitigated to 4500 from sacred soil). Along with the AoE being magic damage? Let's increase the groups magic defense to reduce it even FURTHER... I think both are quite good at AoE healing, especially with +30% and +20% whispering dawn acting like an AoE REGEN spell with divine seal.


Aside from your post Cynfael, I remember people saying good luck on T12 healing the AoE in that as a scholar or double scholar. Well, a scholar solo healed the whole fight. Scholar also solo healed Shiva EX 4 man. Where are the White Mage videos? Did I miss them or have there just not been any able to do it? I mean, since the white mage population is bigger, wouldn't more be trying to solo heal these?

[Slib]

Lustrate is not benediction, it is cure 2.

Lustrate is not a cure 2 either. It is a panic button that is used when someone dips low and needs to be topped up before incoming spike damage. Having three of these at your hand every Aetherflow is very very useful in scripted, PvE content.

[Sebazy]

I remember people saying good luck on T12 healing the AoE in that as a scholar or double scholar. Well, a scholar solo healed the whole fight.

<key detail> The SCH solo heal was 3 Bennu's </key detail> thus the AE healing portion of phase 3 was trivialised to succor and forget status. Overall it's an encounter with a pretty low healing requirement providing people handle the mechanics right.