Should Cleric Stance be disabled during Dungeons and Raids?

[Sumimi]

Why should Healers have to DPS? Don't bring up a guide on why or someone else's post. Answer me with your own words folks.

Long story short: They don't. For the most part, healers DPS to make things "faster". When I'm learning a fight, I generally start seeing holes where I can pop into cleric stance and drop a Aero/Aero II, pop back and wait (T10 Electrofield). Likewise, Tanks don't have to help healers mitigate and DPS don't have to use their cooldowns to help mitigate damage.

Here's a short story: There's a mechanic in T13 where the boss does a near one shot move to a tank (unmitigated). In order to keep the tank alive, it's highly suggested for an Adlo/Stoneskin to be up on the tank before the attack hits. What if the tank doesn't get an Adlo or Stoneskin? He could, instead of generating more threat, attempt to Stoneskin himself in order to make up for his healer's mistakes. If he didn't get the stoneskin off on himself, he would likely have died.

Apocathasis, Eye for an Eye, Virus, Mantra, Second Wind, the list goes on. There's a plethora of different skills that and DPS/Tank class could use to help mitigate damage or heal themselves. It's all a big part of collaboration, and the reason of a party. One can (probably) clear stuff without the use of any of these skills, but it just makes it harder.

[Kyros]

1. I don't know you and I didn't make any personal attack towards you or your play style. So please refrain from doing it to me. Thanks.

2. If you had read my post in it's entirety I was stating it from a 8 man raid perspective and not 4.

If you look around the Parsers of the first World clears of SCoB, FCoB, Savages, etc, you'll see a trend: The healers DPS.

Why? Because when you are in progression you are under-geared. Healer DPS bridges up the DPS gap, just as Pentamelded Jewlery bridge the HP-requirements. DPS check's when the content is fresh where so tight that all 8 members used Poison Pots on the clock. I guarantee you a lot of this "World firsts" wouldn't have happened if the healers weren't DPSing.

Also, I find it funny that you say you are not making any attacks while at the same time assuming not meeting DPS checks means the DPS are bad. Your argument is no different than saying Healers that don't DPS are bad healers.

[DoctorPepper]

2. If you had read my post in it's entirety I was stating it from a 8 man raid perspective and not 4.

4 man or 8 man.. it makes no difference unless we're talking about coil where healing actually becomes a challenge. When you have an 8 man group you also get twice the amount of heals and aoe healing counts for a lot more than it does in 4 man.

I'm sorry but it seems like you're just trying to make excuses to be lazy, if you want to sit around pressing 1 or 2 buttons the entire dungeon that's your own decision but in my opinion that makes you a bad healer. Any good healer with a little bit of gear can throw out 100-150+ dps and keep everybody topped off, it's not hard; it just takes practice.

Also, last time I checked both whm and sch have some very good dps skills, if you think SE intended for healers to sit there and spam cures then why would they give the dps abilities to healers in the first place? Why do you think cleric stance exists? To sit on your hotbar and never be used?

The idea to remove cleric stance is terrible and just an excuse to be lazy. Play your job to its full extent or don't play it at all in my opinion.

[Lycelle]

@Kyros

You're assuming I am calling all Healers bad, I did not. I also understand about World First and stuff like that, but each group has their own strategies that they worked out and created. Some Healers DPS, others don't. It's more or less about being comfortable enough with your play style/job to do this. I understand there "are" DPS checks in raids. When fresh new content comes out it's for people to get used to the mechanics and what else the game is throwing their way. By your logic you're saying that it's a mandatory requirement for progressions sake that Healers DPS. I say nay friend. If this was the case we would have Hybrid jobs, and the closest thing we have currently to hybrid are Cross Class Skills and Arcanist. Also it's another reason why we have Tome Gear. Tome gear is the bridge, not Healers. Tome gear usually bridges the gap between yourself the the requirements for Coil. Just like it was mandatory for people to go into first Coil back when i70 cap was around with either full Darklight Gear/Crafted & Melded Gear or Mythology.

[Evangela]

OP, if you don't want to do damage then don't do it.

other healers want to do and many of them are happy to do so.

[GreatMonkey]

True, but if we didn't have cleric stance it wouldn't be as expected of us to DPS because our performance wouldn't be as good. The reason I made this thread is because there are many instances where healers have a lot on there plate with the healing and it feels unfair to have to do the job of the other jobs. Why should healers dps if the dps don't heal, nor tank and the same applies to tanks they don't heal they just dps because its required to do their job.

Ok as a blm i do some healing if it is needed. It is not all the time but sometimes the healers need some help because of different reasons. Over all tho my healing is not good on a blm nor should it be but it does help out at times.

I dont think they should take cleric stance away. If a healer can find the rime to do some dps then why stop them from doing it?

[Lycelle]

The idea to remove cleric stance is terrible and just an excuse to be lazy. Play your job to its full extent or don't play it at all in my opinion.

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

[Noshpan]

I don't see a reason for Cleric Stance to be disabled while in a dungeon or raid. Nor do I think that a healer should feel coerced into using Cleric Stance, especially if they do not feel comfortable with being able to do a bit of DPS AND heal (which is their primary objective).

[Sigmakan]

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

Great part about Cleric Stance is that it can be toggled on/off. No one is forced to do anything.

If a healer isn't comfortable with DPSing during a dungeon, whatever that's fine.

[DoctorPepper]

This game isn't just made for Hardcore players dude. The way you're coming at this topic seems to be from a more hardcore stand point, which is fine. But there are casual players out there who play the game just for fun. Why should they be forced to live up to your expectations because you want them to?

Nobody is forcing you to live up to others' expectations but I'm not going to sit there and pretend you're some great healer when you don't use half of your abilities because you find it less fun. I never give people shit in dungeons or raids, do what you want as far as I'm concerned, that's what I do. Just don't get upset when people say you're not playing your job effectively.

The reason people think healers that don't dps are bad is because they are wasting every bodies time, including their own, by refusing to play their job as intended. If it wasn't intended to be played that way, half your abilities wouldn't be for dps.