White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Zedd702]

I gotcha ^^

BTW I did not mean to sound like a douche with "this is irrelevant blah blah" I'm just a tad crabby (lack of sleep)...

[Memoriae]

Yes, a SCH can excel at most things better than a WHM if played at their peak due to the fact they can multi-task many actions in a short period. Though this is also bad on the SCH because unlike the WHM, SCH lacks a single spell that can heal a person to max HP in one spell in which they provide damage mitigation at a steep MP cost to make up for. Lustrate is a great spell and getting those aetherflow stacks recovers MP, but besides that and being instant cast, it really does not heal as much as a cure 2 on most things besides a tank and you only get only 3 of your major heals every minutes if you don't plan to use it on anything else. Also if you have any long term experience as a SCH as I do, then you know that the fairy AI is a bit clunky; for example if you had Eos on obey and gave her the command to use Whispering dawn and right afterwords to her to move then she will put Whispering Dawn on CD without casting, so there goes your main AoE regen.

[Memoriae]

Not to mention the delays can cause the skill to go off when it's s too late and having to resummon takes time and MP unless you can spare swiftcast otherwise there goes half your healing capablities.

Tl;dr Whm can get more healing done with only a few spells but at the price of MP, where a SCH can heal and prevent damage from happening but without any true heavy heal.

[FranSeara]

Sorry Kelya , you can't just blame Bard and Smn for your mp issues. I play all 3 jobs. While playing bard you must understand that bards are responsilbe for manys things. If you have Blm,Smn and Whm theres no way you can service all of them. You pick your times to use ballad. While playing smn its sometimes better to leave and dead player dead (smns have mp issues of their own) While on heals (Playing Whm) Whm has MP issues even when played at a high level, this is all I ever hear from friends who play the job in high end stuff. You might be a great Whm player but many players have problems with mp on WHm.

[Kelya]

Haha no worries Zedd!

Sorry Kelya , you can't just blame Bard and Smn for your mp issues. I play all 3 jobs. While playing bard you must understand that bards are responsilbe for manys things. If you have Blm,Smn and Whm theres no way you can service all of them. You pick your times to use ballad. While playing smn its sometimes better to leave and dead player dead (smns have mp issues of their own) While on heals (Playing Whm) Whm has MP issues even when played at a high level, this is all I ever hear from friends who play the job in high end stuff. You might be a great Whm player but many players have problems with mp on WHm.

I don't clearly understand what you mean ^^

I never stated we should rely on bard/smn ? Zedd talked about bard that never uses ballad, then I said that in this case (never or almost never) yeah the player is not good, it's a team work, the heal can't do all by himself when things go wrong. Otherwise, when things are ok (no one taking extra damages/dying) you should be able to raise and let the smn dps, and you should not need any ballad at all or a few (mostly when the boss disappears and there is nothing to do). You also can add Piety to prevent the bard from singing, but it's another story ^^

Yeah sure there are a lot of person that have issues with MP, but there are a lot that haven't too. I think most ppl think than if they end a fight under 1000-2000 MP max, they are low, they have issues with MP but remember that any MP that is left without being consumed is MP waste. Don't be afraid if you finish the fight at low MP, that's ok.

The important thing is about overhealing and being low MP too fast (sooner in the fight instead of at the end). Another thing is about using the right spell at the right moment, but a lot of ppl also think the WHM is "easy to master" because he's GCD based and you can't really do a lot of things in the same time so once you figured out all the spells, it's always the same things, but actually WHM gameplay is a lot more deep than that, and this is where you learn to manage the MP. There are so much WHM that don't maximize all their spells that use the wrong AOE heal and that forgot there is another healer, there is the Whispering Dawn of Eos, ect..., and that can simply be the reason for their MP issues. If it was a MP issue due to the equilibrium of the job, after more than 1 year, SE would have already changed something, I guess.

After really mastering the job (meaning you just don't play it correctly, but effectively, which is more), you really have no reason having MP issues in HL content since you even have enough to 1) give a raise as a WHM if sch/smn can't 2) dps when you can if you have some accuracy and for some reason, the sch isn't dpsing.

Or... The issue is somewhere else (your co-healer, your tanks, your dps).

[Parawill]

Have you met ANY of the primals? Have you met Scyalla, Xande, Twintania, or even done any of the HM dungeons? And that's just the early content that requires "bulk" (assuming you meant group/AoE) healing.

Seriously AoE healing is needed and scholar's do not possess many tools at all to cover this arena.

Yes I have. I've done everything up to T12, and I can tell you that most content is solo healable by Scholars when with a group that's very familiar with the fight. That means no one is taking damage from Ifrit Plumes; no one is taking damage from Titan Plumes; no one is getting hit by avoidable damage.

I'm not trying to justify that White Mages aren't needed, but simply showing why people Scholars > White Mages in terms of min maxing. As for Scylla, Xande, Twintania and any other Hard Mode dungeon, Eos is enough to handle any of those mechanics UNLESS you have:

• Newbies
• Severely undergeared players (low max hitpoints)
• People taking unnecessary damage
• Not a premade group that is very familiar and has the ability to one-shot content

[Scholars] cannot sit on a team in a HM dungeon with fairy on auto heal, while they just DPS, sure if they are bad SCH's and let teammates die occasionally during rare instances when tanks lose hate or more frequently when bosses do damage to the entire party.

I don't know where you're going with this. I never said that a Scholar can sit in Cleric Stance and DPS without having the need to cast any healing or mitigation skill while solely relying on fairy heals 100% of the time. What I was trying to convey is whereas a White Mage can only essentially do one or two things per global cooldown (which by the way is either HEAL or DPS), a Scholar can do way more (DPS and HEAL at the same time).

[DreamWeaver]

Same can be said for WHM no?
Other than maybe T11 1st nerve cloud (Not sure survivable or not with repeated spam-age of Stoneskin), a capable WHM can probably solo heal most content as well.

[Parawill]

^ Yes Just a bit more difficult (unless you go out of your way for 2x bards) since you're so restricted on GCDs that you can't really pump out extra heals aside from HoTs. I feel like you can solo-heal T11 as a Scholar, but it will require excellent usage of cooldowns and coordination (Mantra, etc.) with your team. I can only speculate since I haven't attempted or even tried yet. @.@

[Zedd702]

Same can be said for WHM no?
Other than maybe T11 1st nerve cloud (Not sure survivable or not with repeated spam-age of Stoneskin), a capable WHM can probably solo heal most content as well.

She basically said what I was getting at.

To me it appeared as though you were saying that SCH was superior to WHM (same thing OP is pretty much trying to say).

But you clarified that you were not saying that. So we're fine now.

For the record: I like BOTH WHM and SCH and don't find either superior in PvE content. In PvP on the other hand from what I read and seen on videos etc SCH > WHM, mostly due to tank cure fairy while the SCH can DPS. WHM has to be played a little more strategically in PvP.

[radioactive_lego]

FWIW, I've started leveling up my SCH for the past week or so (up to 40 now) and through all the Daily:LLR I've done, I've come away with 2 feelings;

1. WHM is definetly the better healer (especially in critical cirumstances) but lacks the versatility of the SCH.
2. Passive healing from the SCH pet is awesome, but a pain in the ass to control (Especially for Gamepad users).