Please say Heavensward will have a better loot system than Coil

[Giantbane]

If it's tokens, then bad luck will mean some ppl never get their loot anyway, unless you take turns, as i guess most raid groups do with carbontwines.
that's not gonna work with pugs though...it will be like trying to get sands from ST, except you can only try once/week. and if it's like FCoB, then you can only get a chest on the first try.

I think the random loot is good, it allows you to gear up alts, without having to swap jobs for everyone in the pt; imagine healers wanting DRG stuff, but can't, cause no drg in pt.
I'm maining NIN, in coil, but i get more drg loot than nin which i don't really mind, cause drg gear is hot as hell. But yah, don't want to be forced to go as drg, just to get drg gear, or force someone else to go drg, just for the stuff to drop. But obv i rather get nin stuff, to begin with, but meh.
Guess my group been quite lucky, we haven't got many doubles, or unwanted gear; someone always gets something useful.

I prefer limited RNG. Something they do in WoW with raid gear (or did at one point, I haven't played it in years). Where you'd have a few different tokens per gear slot. IE: you could have something like the following for the head slot:

head token of strength - 30% drop rate - can use to buy WAR, PLD, DRG helms
head token of speed - 30% drop rate - can use to buy MNK, NIN, BRD helms
head token of magic - 40% drop rate - can use to buy WHM, SCH, SMN, BLM helms

the varying drop rates reflect the number of jobs that can use each type

that way there's some randomness in what you get (allowing for extras that go to alts), as well as the entire raid not being able to roll "need" (so you don't end up with issues like ST where it can be very difficult to win rolls in pugs). But since there's only 3 different outcomes you're not likely to get scenarios where you NEVER see a particular type of weapon or armor.

However, in this case it would be nice if they made it so you couldn't roll need on tokens if you currently have the turn in gear for the class you're playing. IE:

head token of strength trades in for heavensward helm of fending (PLD/WAR) OR heavensward helm of maiming (DRG)
you are playing WAR and you currently have in your inventory the heavensward helm of fending: you cannot roll need on any head tokens of STR
you are playing DRG and you currently have in your inventory the heavensward helm of fending: you CAN roll need on any head tokens of STR

Er, what? Justice and Valor tokens never replaced (and never were intended to - unless this happened just now in WoD?) tier tokens. As you said, tomestones are meant to emulate justice/valor points (preraid blues and raid level purples) while the raid drop tier tokens helped ease off bad RNG raid drops that plagued vanilla WoW.

For those that have no idea what we're talking about, what they're looking at doing now is creating a system where a tier token will drop from a boss rather than the actual gear piece. This gear token will be restricted to certain jobs (for example, a Healer token would be redeemable by SCH/WHM, an Agi token would work for NIN/BRD, STR for DRG/MNK, etc) which vastly reduces the amount of bad RNG luck while still maintaining a somewhat acceptable level of loot RNG.

this basically

[Felis]

Heavensward dungeons will have a better loot system than coil. But I don't know how it will be with Heavensward Alexander.

I also would like the drops to be relative to participant classes and jobs.

For instance, no caster drops if there are no casters in the party. No dragoon gear drops if no dragoons in the party.

In fact, make that the standard for all runs. Dungeons, raids, trials, whatever. Make drops relative to the party.

Maybe if they do it like in the current expert dungeons. This way no gear will drop that nobody can roll need and still can equip other jobs with them once the duty ended.

[Deculture]

Deculture. Justice and Valor were introduced in Cataclysm to replace the raid emblem/token system of Lich King.
If the token system FFXIV wants for Heavensward is by loot type, I dare say that's an even worse idea. They'll have to introduce a new set of tokens the next tier to invalidate the existing so people can't stockpile, which just means even more currencies per raid tier sitting around being useless.

Perhaps we're talking about different things? I last played WoW around 6 months ago and there were still raid tokens alongside justice and valor points and from what I hear, they're still around in WoD (for example, Vanquisher token = Rogue, Death Knight, Mage, Druid). Maybe Valor has changed but it was always used as a currency to assist raiders with bad loot luck to fill in slots, which is somewhat similar to how poetics currently work in FFXIV. The main difference is Valor gear almost never was apart of anyone's BiS list when compared to heroic raid gear while poetic gear in FFXIV shows up very frequently in many job's BiS.

And yeah, every tier would indeed need its own set of tokens, which really didn't seem like a big deal at all in WoW.

[Giantbane]

Deculture. Justice and Valor were introduced in Cataclysm to replace the raid emblem/token system of Lich King.
If the token system FFXIV wants for Heavensward is by loot type, I dare say that's an even worse idea. They'll have to introduce a new set of tokens the next tier to invalidate the existing so people can't stockpile, which just means even more currencies per raid tier sitting around being useless.

as long as it's 1 token = 1 piece of gear then there's no need to stockpile anything and adding in "new currencies" is easy

they already add in new naming conventions for each new tier of gear anyway, ie: allagan gear, high allagan gear, dreadwyrm gear then they can easily follow the same naming convention for tokens:

IE:
allagan breastplate (token) becomes heavy allagan armor or allagan cuirass of striking
high allagan breastplate becomes heavy high allagan coat or high allagan cuirass of maiming
dreadwyrm breastplate becomes dreadwyrm armor of fending or dreadwyrm mail of maiming

Easy

And the old tokens? No different than having old gear. Trade them in and sell, desynth, or save for glamour like you currently do.

[Elim]

I also would like the drops to be relative to participant classes and jobs.

YES PLEASE! *begs*

I'm honestly going bat crap insane with my groups loot drops. While last week it was better, the majority of our drops have been dragoon and there is no dragoon in our group. No one in our group likes or plays dragoon as an alt even. What I hate the most is we've now gotten a grand total of four dragoon chests. Half our group has a dragoon chest. Every time I see a dragoon chest I die a little on the inside.

[Verlyn]

Perhaps we're talking about different things? I last played WoW around 6 months ago and there were still raid tokens alongside justice and valor points and from what I hear, they're still around in WoD (for example, Vanquisher token = Rogue, Death Knight, Mage, Druid). Maybe Valor has changed but it was always used as a currency to assist raiders with bad loot luck to fill in slots, which is somewhat similar to how poetics currently work in FFXIV. The main difference is Valor gear almost never was apart of anyone's BiS list when compared to heroic raid gear while poetic gear in FFXIV shows up very frequently in many job's BiS.

And yeah, every tier would indeed need its own set of tokens, which really didn't seem like a big deal at all in WoW.

I guess things have indeed changed since Cata. I wasn't aware this was exactly what WoW did post-Justice/Valor. It seems like they're working backwards to me, but regardless of personal opinion I can't argue with it if it works.

[Felis]

The current loot system is just flawed.

* Imagine when Dark Knight, Astrologian and Machinist get released! (and later on other jobs (Samurai?, Red Mage, etc.):

Imagine how CROWDED the Loot Pool is going to be on those Chests now with even MORE Job Gear Sets added in! The chances of getting specific gear you want will be even more ridiculous.

Dark Knight = Tank gear
Astrologian = Healer gear
For those 2 jobs there would be no new gears in the chests.

Machinist could get Bard gear (then it would be Ranged DPS gear), or get own gear if SE think that Bard's gear design don't fit the image of the Machinist.

[Xatsh]

They already said they are adding the system. I am hoping they just do what they did in Garuda back in 1.0.

Chest drop gear as normal. And also a token for all participates who cleared.

After you get say 8-10 token items you can trade it in for your choice of gear for said turn.

What I do not want to see is what we have in dungeons for I90 stuff. Aka Ancient Alexanders breast plate => Turns into all body pieces. That would be way way way too patentically easy to get gear at that point.

but honestly....

I blows my mind how people are playing a mmo and complaining there is a rng... Hell this game has less rng then 99% of mmos out there. You are gaurenteed 2-4 BIS pieces of gear per boss fight (when you factor in upgrade items). After token people will be demanding you be able to buy the top tier gear from a vendor for 100k.

If anything the current loot distribution system is already too generous. RNG is part of what makes the mmo genre the mmo genre. Removing the rng leads to a lack of content due to it being too easy to gear up and the devs not being able to deliver content fast enough... something for a decent size portion of ffxiv is already a major issue.

[Zumi]

No thanks ill keep the RNG.

Having a token system just screws over the tanks and healers. Because guilds focused on progression give all items to the dps first over tanks and healers. Because you need more dps to beat enrage timers faster. It was already bad previously in 2nd coil, i didn't get a sands/oil until they were made available in hunts because dps got them all. I have yet to get a carbontwine because again the dps need them. I am basically forced to do relic for my weapon because well the tomestones dps get first dibs and by the time its my turn to lot my relic is already better then the tomestone weapon.

If you put in a token system that lets you pick a piece of gear after getting tokens yea the tanks and healers would never get any gear until the dps had everything that is a bad system. Because no guild that wants the fastest progression is going to give gear to a tank or healer over a dps when given an option.

So no on a token system I will keep the rng its more fair at least your other jobs besides dps can have a chance to get gear this way instead of waiting like 3 months later to get gear when the dps finally don't need stuff, or we have to spam the casual catch up content to get ilvls caught up to the dps when SE adds easy ways to get items like hunts.

[Sapphic]

For those that have no idea what we're talking about, what they're looking at doing now is creating a system where a tier token will drop from a boss rather than the actual gear piece. This gear token will be restricted to certain jobs (for example, a Healer token would be redeemable by SCH/WHM, an Agi token would work for NIN/BRD, STR for DRG/MNK, etc) which vastly reduces the amount of bad RNG luck while still maintaining a somewhat acceptable level of loot RNG.

Did they actually state somewhere that is the way they are doing it? If so, source?