We want cleric stance

[Slib]

Except Sword Oath and no-Defiance don't allow us to effectively triple our damage output like Cleric Stance does.

Guessing you never played healer before. Cleric stance about doubles the damage you do in Frontlines, not triple. Also, Sword Oath doesn't have a negative impact on you. Cleric stance makes your healing garbage and one mistake can get you or your teammates killed in the 5 second recast it has.

[Slib]

healers generally ruin pvp, I think removing cleric stance is the very least they should have done xD

24v24v24 ruined PvP, AKA Frontlines. Wolves Den felt a lot more balanced than Frontlines.

The fact that you can have any amount of healers in a group breaks it. They should limit it to two per group. Not really sure why they haven't done this yet...

[Atreus]

Guessing you never played healer before. Cleric stance about doubles the damage you do in Frontlines, not triple. Also, Sword Oath doesn't have a negative impact on you. Cleric stance makes your healing garbage and one mistake can get you or your teammates killed in the 5 second recast it has.

Feel free to Lodestone. Before posting that one I did a quick test of the damage using Holy, uncapped, in a basic MND set. How it scales based on i80 and whatever VIT accessories are chosen I do not recall offhand. You making that correction doesn't exactly take away from the point though, lol. Sword Oath still doesn't even double our damage, and is subject to GCD whereas Cleric Stance is not.

You still cannot compare them. At all.

[Slib]

Feel free to Lodestone. Before posting that one I did a quick test of the damage using Holy, uncapped, in a basic MND set. How it scales based on i80 and whatever VIT accessories are chosen I do not recall offhand. You making that correction doesn't exactly take away from the point though, lol. Sword Oath still doesn't even double our damage, and is subject to GCD whereas Cleric Stance is not.

You still cannot compare them. At all.

Yes you can, when being forced into Shield Oath would nerf your damage by 20% flat, and not have the extra auto attack damage. The OP is saying to force tanks into their defensive stance since they are tanks and not DPS. Just like how healers were forced to not use cleric stance to apply DPS since they want us to just heal.

Edit: Also, you having a GCD on it makes you able to take it off or change them right away. The penalty for cleric stance is a 5 second downtime of being able to take it off, which is very dangerous if you incorrectly use it. I could see something like 10 seconds instead of 5 on the recast tho.

[Atreus]

You are correct. OP is saying lock us into Shield Oath, which would be fine, but SE had better give Provoke a use or us a way to force people to target us beyond Cover. Otherwise you'd never see a tank again, whereas healers still haven't lost their primary function.

I believe they went that route because (as nice as it would be) locking teams to two healers max isn't realistic in such large-scale games. The way it is now though, having more than three healers is rather wasteful considering they can't turn those extra bodies into overclocked Holy's.

As stated before, Cleric Stance and Swiftcast were targeted because of job stacking.

[Slib]

There are still few games where I see 3 - 5 healers on the enemy team (tho this could be because two groups joined together, or parts of them) and things will never die without good CC and focus firing... But this is where I think frontlines fails...there are times when you join and some one of the alliance teams do not have a healer, or the whole 24 person alliance only has 1-2 healers. This is very depressing because you know you are not going to win or at least enjoy the PvP match. There really needs to be something that makes you have at least 2 healers per party or this will continue happening.

Anyway, back on point, this is going to happen to every class, the job stacking of course. Summoners could be part of this too with baning (4 total but still extremely potent and low cd). Since regens do not stack anymore, imagine all of those dots ticking on you hard and having to use purify to get them off. One fester from each summoner and someone will pop instantly.

Also imagine 6 black mages with 2 healers moving in and each black mage casting fire 1 after astral fire 3 with a phantom dart rotation on each target. All it takes is 1 fire 1 from each to kill someone. Cool teamwork tho.

Imagine 8 dragoons running in and using a strenth potion with blood for blood and internal release and their +crit pvp ability with dragonfire dive + aoe.

All of these combos will wipe a group who stacks in the middle of a base or take them down so fast they wont know what hit them. Holy is not the only ability that can do this. It's called teamwork. When people abuse these mechanics they are forming a team to do it on purpose, a PUG would never do this (or from my experience they wouldn't).

At this rate let's nerf every class!

[Slib]

What I'm trying to get at is, frontlines allows 24 people on one alliance. The number of abilities it takes to kill someone is not that much with the damage output DPS can do. Frontlines is definitely imbalanced as a whole. Good teamwork makes it just way too easy to rip apart groups in no time and there will be nothing healers can do. Here are some of my personal opinions on the PvP in this game tho that need some fixing...

- Reduce all damage dealt, and all healing done by 50% in frontlines. This is basically doubling the persons health pool, making it so you don't pop in one second when focus fired. This has happened to me vs many premade teams because they are using voice chats to discuss who to burn down next, etc. All it takes is 4 dps and you will die in 3 seconds with the amount of off GCD abilities in PvP.

- Reduce Fetter Wards duration by 50%, reduce its cooldown by 50%. I feel like this ability lasts way too long. A good plus side for reducing the duration is to reduce the cooldown by the same amount.

- Remove baseline skill Raise and Ressurection from Whitemage and Scholar. Only keep the PvP raise in the game for PvP only.

- Increase the cooldown of fluid aura. This ability just seems too powerful on white mage for such a short cooldown. Don't know if it's just me, but I feel that way.

- Bring back Cleric Stance. I am all for cleric stance. I feel like it introduced a fun style of play for healers in this games PvP. If anything, increase the recast on it by 10 seconds to make them suffer longer for popping it. Also, this should effect the fairys healing as well.

Those are my ideas. Most are harsh, but it would make things more interesting imo.

[Dererk]

Fine you can have cleric stance back.......

BUT REMOVE RAISE RAISE IS BY FAR THE STUPIDEST THING TO HAVE IN PVP.

[AstralKaos]

Yes you can, when being forced into Shield Oath would nerf your damage by 20% flat, and not have the extra auto attack damage. The OP is saying to force tanks into their defensive stance since they are tanks and not DPS. Just like how healers were forced to not use cleric stance to apply DPS since they want us to just heal.

Edit: Also, you having a GCD on it makes you able to take it off or change them right away. The penalty for cleric stance is a 5 second downtime of being able to take it off, which is very dangerous if you incorrectly use it. I could see something like 10 seconds instead of 5 on the recast tho.

And that is exactly why the OP's black and white view and "remedy" to this non-problem shouldn't be taken seriously, or even considered.

They removed CS from WHM/SCH because it was broken and undeniably game breaking. Something that a PLD/WAR in Sword Oath is far from being.

[Niroken]

Fine you can have cleric stance back.......

BUT REMOVE RAISE RAISE IS BY FAR THE STUPIDEST THING TO HAVE IN PVP.

I dunno, having to run from the main base all the way back to the fight because some dragoon used his limit break and instakilled you is pretty stupid (yes you can use VIT gear but the fact you need to use VIT gear to avoid getting one shot is idiotic itself).