We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Ghishlain]

Battle ress is the worst excuse why summoners dps should be low. Game should be developed by that what is the max potential without making any misstakes. Battle ress have no use if you wanna get world first kills or something like that.

I think it might be interesting if they found a way to make SMN Resurrection cost 0MP and have a ten minute cool down on it. That way SMN would retain that "utility" without hampering their MP effectiveness.

Though, given the stat weights provided earlier, it does feel like the problem is more broad reaching.

[Orrias]

1. Increase Aetherflow stacks (Reasoning; after 1.30 mins, you're out of Aetherflow stacks and have just entered the non-competitive zone, if no adds are available to dps in tandum).
   
2. Remove the Aetherflow stack requirement of Energy Drain/ buff the potency of Energy Drain (Reasoning: Long drawn out, 1v1 fights equate to lolSMN, as MP returns are a joke).
   
3. Add PIE to future SMN weapons (Reasoning: Helps somewhat with the MP issue that SMNs have in FCoB).

The issues that SMN faces stem from two abilities -- Aetherflow and Energy Drain. In addtion to this, the fight mechanics in FCoB also compound the issue, as they do not give much leeway for a SMN to play to their fullest, w/o a group overgearing the encounter, in order for MP issues to be hidden where they ordinarily wouldn't be.

You could add more PIE/ MP regen, however, as soon as your initial Aetherflow stacks are burnt burnt through (from the start of a fight), and you need the next Aetherflow stack for a Fester, to maintain competitive dps, and you can't, you're screwed. Aetherflow is also a nuissance, as any buffs it could potentially receive are, under the current Job system, going to be subject to watering down due to it being a ACN ability. (-____-)

Tbh, I think it's too late now. The Dev team is most likely just going to make changes for 3.0, or one of the 3.x patches.

[Shizuna]

Both of these above suggestions will affect SCH, too, cause they share the same class (ACN) and skills..

Anyways, I already suggested quick-fixes to SMN, like more base PIE and such, but now I'm slowly converting to BLM so I'm pretty much gonna quit SMN until they do something about it.

[Alberel]

To be quite honest SE have dug themselves into a corner by having SMN and SCH share a base class in ACN. It's proving far too difficult for them to adjust for one job without screwing over the other. They really just need to separate the two somehow.

[Sanguisio]

SMN mana issues really arent as bad as people make them out to be, I've seen alot of SMNs spam Ruin2 for no reason.
Also its not tons, but auto attack when possible as well, every little helps.

[Clarkamite]

360-400 is really bad for every turn, no offense to your SMN.

To be fair the numbers I threw out there were from months ago when he was at most i104 in second coil turns. Also, the person who parses in our group doesn't have it stop after any lapses in time. It's all connected. I've said this before in other threads but usually when I see people start throwing out numbers that usually doesn't mean anything to me until I know what their parse's parameters are set to as well as what responsibilities their job has. Parsing near 400 in T7 as a SMN kiting sounds pretty legit if you ask me. Then again, I don't play SMN ever so their numbers also don't mean much when compared to my own.

EDIT: As of today, I was told for at least the first half of the fight (t11) our SMN was maintaining 500 DPS. Again sounds pretty legit to me. No idea what he ended up at. I just ask for my numbers to compare to myself. My only point with any of this was to say that here our SMN is apparently pushing really high DPS and I've seen him several times use a battle rez when people (our bard; twice in the same run today) are dying for no apparent reason. He never seems to be running out of mana. I just don't know what other people are doing compared to him that make them so starved for mana. I'm not criticizing or arguing, just offering perspective from what I see with my group.

[loreleidiangelo]

SMN mana issues really arent as bad as people make them out to be, I've seen alot of SMNs spam Ruin2 for no reason.
Also its not tons, but auto attack when possible as well, every little helps.

If you think that SMNs are "spamming" Ruin II for "no reason" then you either don't main SMN or don't play it to its optimal potential.

Yes, cutting out Ruin II (which you normally use to either allow for more auto-attacks or to force a window to use an off-GCD like Fester when you don't need to refresh Bio) is a way to save MP, but the problem is that SMN are lowering their already-low DPS to do so. You could also cut some Shadow Flares out of your rotation or sub an Energy Drain for a Fester or two, but again, you take a hit to maximum DPS.

As it currently stands, SMN have a delicate dance of multi-tasking and resource management that other DPS roles don't have, and we don't have the utility or the raw numbers to make up for it.

[Orrias]

Both of these above suggestions will affect SCH, too, cause they share the same class (ACN) and skills..

Anyways, I already suggested quick-fixes to SMN, like more base PIE and such, but now I'm slowly converting to BLM so I'm pretty much gonna quit SMN until they do something about it.

1. Increase Aetherflow stacks (Reasoning; after 1.30 mins, you're out of Aetherflow stacks and have just entered the non-competitive zone, if no adds are available to dps in tandum).
   
2. Remove the Aetherflow stack requirement of Energy Drain/ buff the potency of Energy Drain (Reasoning: Long drawn out, 1v1 fights equate to lolSMN, as MP returns are a joke).
   
3. Add PIE to future SMN weapons (Reasoning: Helps somewhat with the MP issue that SMNs have in FCoB).

The issues that SMN faces stem from two abilities -- Aetherflow and Energy Drain. In addtion to this, the fight mechanics in FCoB also compound the issue, as they do not give much leeway for a SMN to play to their fullest, w/o a group overgearing the encounter, in order for MP issues to be hidden where they ordinarily wouldn't be.

You could add more PIE/ MP regen, however, as soon as your initial Aetherflow stacks are burnt through (from the start of a fight), and you need the next Aetherflow stack for a Fester, to maintain competitive dps, and you can't, you're screwed. Aetherflow is also a nuissance, as any buffs it could potentially receive are, under the current Job system, going to be subject to watering down due to it being a ACN ability. (-____-)

Tbh, I think it's too late now. The Dev team is most likely just going to make changes for 3.0, or one of the 3.x patches.

Using stats to artificially 'solve' the mp issues still does not negate the fact that SMN loses it's spike/nuke early on, in fights, and the wait for Aetherflow's CD is a difference of at least 60 dps, if not more.

Aetherflow is problematic because; (a) it's an ACN ability -- meaning potential buffs/ nerfs must take both SMN & SCH into effect, and (b) our nuke and feeble our emergency mp return ability are linked to it.

[Xolotl]

An easy fix would be to break the connection fester has with aetherflux, with a 10ish cd, or make it like a bard's bloodletter. This way we buff smn without affecting sch, solving mp issues ( energy drains at will) and maybe gaining the dps we're lacking in the process.

[Xisin]

Just going to say, a trend has happens in this thread that is bad, stop using your own dps numbers if they aren't fit to use, if your going to compare low smn dps to high blm dps this thread is pointless. High ends should be compared only. Also don't use your numbers from second coil >_> that means literally nothing, smn was better than blm at 2nd coil in 2.2-2.3. 8 being he exception.