We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Adrian74]

At first I was going be super smelly and sounding like an elitist jerk But for some reasons your way of writing is just too cute for my heart , so I'm gonna be gentle for once.

The thing is, the whole debate in this thread is mainly aimed to midcore/raider (endgame) situations, back in the past the smn community already had a warning about a possible MP management issue when we firstly met turn 8 in scob but every other turns were kind of "decent" and with a proper mp management you shouldn't encounter much problems.

Today is a whole and new story, welcome in fcob where every single turns got adds (mostly ton of adds), no cooldown-moments for mp management and those said reasons will lead to radical / critical situations where you may no longer be able to maximize your dps as a SMN because of a terrible lack of mps.

And about raise during fights... To make it short, a raise during turn 13 will most likely mean to just wipe and restart.

Because of that, SMN is now in a very bad position when it come to a competitive point of view, a good leader with the will of getting a fast progression into fcob will aim for the best team setup and so for the good of its team... Which mean, if as a static leader for fcob, you have to choose between a BLM and a SMN to fill the last spot of your static, the obvious choice will lead your hand to BLM, no questions.

Well, I appreciate your explanation (And a very good one, with calm and patience), since I acknowledged the position of summoners in final coil (I'm not too much into searching for other 7 to go) :3

Perhaps my definition of summoner is very acceptable for all content, except t9 further?. Indeed if a ton of adds where you need mega-burst power appear, your bane only covers 3 enemies, and you don't have time for using some of the pets AoE and stuff.... Summoner could be in troubles.

PS: Your explanation deserves like!

[Akiza]

The main problem that the Summoner has is it shares its base class with the Scholar so SE can't do anything to the Summoner without affecting the Scholar. Summoner is harder to play than other dps jobs played perfectly Summoner's average 30-40 dps below every dps except Bard even if other dps jobs screw up their rotation. If a player makes a mistake on a Summoner its a huge dps lose compared to other dps and that's why their dps should be 10-15% higher than other dps jobs on average. If SE wanted to increase dps they can increase the pet damage by 15% or they can make it support by giving the pets passive utilities and party buffs.

[Sleigh]

The main problem that the Summoner has is it shares its base class with the Scholar so SE can't do anything to the Summoner without affecting the Scholar. Summoner is harder to play than other dps jobs played perfectly Summoner's average 30-40 dps below every dps except Bard even if other dps jobs screw up their rotation. If a player makes a mistake on a Summoner its a huge dps lose compared to other dps and that's why their dps should be 10-15% higher than other dps jobs on average. If SE wanted to increase dps they can increase the pet damage by 15% or they can make it support by giving the pets passive utilities and party buffs.

I'm all for a SMN buff but, come on, 10-15% higher DPS than other jobs on average? That'd be completely ridiculous, especially if talking about single target and considering they're a ranged class. They're also not that hard - a "mistake" is letting a DoT fall off, which is not even close to a melee rotation mistake or losing a cast on BLM. The worst mistake can be not having stacks for Bane or Fester for a burn, but it's very easy to stop yourself from mindlessly Festering before said time.

[loreleidiangelo]

Let's not let this thread fall by the wayside with all of the posts about the new expansion stuff! SE, please throw SMN a bone before worrying about new jobs and classes!

Also, while I agree with the above poster that a huge DPS/potency buff to SMN is probably a little unfair, I actually REALLY like Akiza's idea that pets bring utility to raid rather than just being the damage drones that they are currently. SMN already do about as much damage as BRD but bring none of the utility. Things like letting Ifrit have a small TP restore or Garuda place a Foe's-like debuff on a single mob for a short duration might let us see more PFs like "LF BRD OR SMN for new Heavensward raid static!" instead of just "LF BRD and BLM for new Heavensward raid static!".

Obviously the utility doesn't have to be those EXACT suggestions, but I hope they confer my meaning adequately enough. I'd rather see SMN get more utility than more damage, but that might be a personal preference.

[Xisin]

putting foe on smn is a tricky proposition. It sounds awesome I agree but depending on the application that's a 10% damage increase to summoner and even more reason for bards to under use foe, this hurts blm because of that... I just want foe removed form the game and an ability given to the casters that does the same thing >_>. Bards really annoy me.

Another thing of interest and relevant is machinist, due to it being ranged its something we have to compete with technically since bard is also a competing for 1 of 2 ranged slots. Its really all speculation and baseless at this point though.

heres some utility examples:

Ramuh egi:

stormcallers mark: applies a reverse damage shield on the mob, every action taken on it for the next 20 seconds results in a proc of 35 damage on the mob (number is an example, this ability can get bonkers in multi man raiding though.) 150 sec cd

shiva-egi

Icequeen's solitude: applies mp regeneration on the party for the next 12 seconds (cd: 120 seconds) (approx 100 per tick)

leviathan egi:

liquidity: increases attack speed of party members by 10% and reduces casting time by 10% (30 second duration) 150 sec cd) (I know lore wise this should go on garuda but w/e.) (note: cast time reduction would synergize well with summoners already not wanting spell speed, as a large gcd would benefit more from reduction.)

Etc.

I know this is 3.0 changes but this was my idea of odd utilities. Summoner summons have a wide array of elements and thus can really be fit into anything lore wise. all the values above are examples, don't read into that too much. Just giving examples of utility.

[Akiza]

SE should make the Summoner a Pure Job since that's where they are going with the class system. The Summoner should be a Controller Pet Dps and control the entire encounter. Since Summoning Magic is stronger than Black Mages Summoner's should have higher single target bursts and greater aoe potential. Pets should bring crowd control and massive AoE bursts.

Ifrit Egi - eruption deals massive damage and reduce physical resistance of all enemies radiant plumes increases physical damage of part as well as dealing massive damage.

Titan Egi- Titan Shield provides party defense and Weight of the Land deals massiv damage and slow to all enemies.

Garuda Egi- Great Whirlwind hits all enemies deals massive damage and increase magic damage of party Friction cause dot and reduces magic resistance of all enemies.
increases magic damage

[Minorinz]

summoner doesn't need massive buffs... until expansion maybe even then i'd call them adjustments.
Right now it needs some love from SE <3
especially on expansion since no caster/casting jobs were announced..

[Shizuna]

After watching that live letter, I wonder if there's gonna be SMN adjustments in patch 2.5; I'm a little worried. :/

[Kikosho]

I'm all for a SMN buff but, come on, 10-15% higher DPS than other jobs on average? That'd be completely ridiculous, especially if talking about single target and considering they're a ranged class.

I mainly just want to address this portion but what does being a ranged class have to do with how high your dps can be? Maybe in the past when content was designed more punishing for melee but that hasn't been the case for quite a while. For most part, you aren't any safer attacking from range as your are in melee distance and for quite a lot of fights, ranged classes fight right next to the boss with the melee.

[Meier]

After watching that live letter, I wonder if there's gonna be SMN adjustments in patch 2.5; I'm a little worried. :/

yeah same, I thought they would have said at least something by now ; ;