FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[Taliph]

Are you seriously resorting to personal attacks now? You've just hit an all-time low.

You argue that the the pay to win stems from Gathering and Crafting classes. Answer me one thing; How does one level all their gathering and crafting classes in one night? To be a successful crafter, you need to level up all your crafting classes to get all the abilities (or at least most of them, but the harder the recipe, the more of those abilities you need). To be a successful gatherer, you need to get it to the level cap first. And as far as I know, both share the same tokens we call 'leve allowances', and this also shares use for battlecraft and grand company leves. Allowances regenerate by 3 every 12 hours. Pay-to-win bypasses the time-factor and gives you the best of the best immediately delivered to your doorstep with no strings attached. :P

Not a personal attack, an honest question. You have proven in the past to be rather ignorant (the definition of RMT comes to mind)

Not in one night, but it only takes a few hours per class if you have the leves for it... Regardless the issue is that it can be done by leveraging real life money for ingame advantage. Even if I were to yield this point, you still cannot argue against buying BiS... Tho you realize that the known comparison to exp pots is a time reduction (as in not making the leve turnins yourself or earning the Gil to buy them ingame) not a time negation.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Although you claim it isn't a personal attack, it can be seen as one - and you're being very rude with that last remark of yours. Anyway, don't clump two sides as same just because they are categorized under the same type. It's like saying cows and zebras are the same because they are, 'herbivores'. "Hey Tommy, look at that herbivore! There's also herbivores at this zoo too! Look another herbivore!" It's a definition, not a name (Real Money Trading; Definition/Category. Real Money Traders; Name).

The only thing you've been explaining so far is 'time-factored pay-to-win'. I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them. Buying BiS gear is also not guaranteed. You can still 'lose' at the game rather than 'win' if you failed with melding materia.

[Kuolema]

Is there any possible way that we can let this thread and topic die? I think this topic has run it's course.

[tocsin]

Is there any possible way that we can let this thread and topic die? I think this topic has run it's course.

+1. Its a dead horse, then we beat it up again, then we made it into horse burgers, then threw the burgers against the wall, then ate the burgers, sent them through our system, and then flushed it just to be sure it was extra dead.

[Taruinatho]

I honestly feel like the previous posters don't get how your definition of P2W is flawed and hurts the entire player-base as a whole. It made my roommate unsubscrib and now he won't go buy eggs with me at our local market anymore. THANK YOSHI P.

[Synestra]

Heck if you need to buy gil in a game where gil comes insanely easy..you're doing something horrendously wrong.

Agree. Been leveling all craft classes from lvl36-37 up to lvl40 to get self-repair and in those few levels i made 500-600k gil just by leveling them, didnt even try to make any money really. Also using scrubby vendor gear so i got some nice crafter materias that went from 40 to 70k gil each and that too gave nice gil bonus on top of spammed mats.

[kidvideo]

Like hyperbole in a debate... your liberal font travesty demands that your argument be ignored, therefore you have lost. :-/

[Taliph]

Although you claim it isn't a personal attack, it can be seen as one - and you're being very rude with that last remark of yours. Anyway, don't clump two sides as same just because they are categorized under the same type. It's like saying cows and zebras are the same because they are, 'herbivores'. "Hey Tommy, look at that herbivore! There's also herbivores at this zoo too! Look another herbivore!" It's a definition, not a name (Real Money Trading; Definition/Category. Real Money Traders; Name).

The only thing you've been explaining so far is 'time-factored pay-to-win'. I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them. Buying BiS gear is also not guaranteed. You can still 'lose' at the game rather than 'win' if you failed with melding materia.

If you want to take my comment as rude, so be it, they say: life is 90% how you take it.

If you want a definition for RMT, the ToS supplies the only one applicable to this discussion. Buying or selling items, ingame services, characters, and currency for real money.

There is also your melding comment, you can buy fully melded crafting/gathering gear... Again you seem to be intentionally obfuscating the discussion.

+1. Its a dead horse, then we beat it up again, then we made it into horse burgers, then threw the burgers against the wall, then ate the burgers, sent them through our system, and then flushed it just to be sure it was extra dead.

I'm glad your server no longer has pf's up 23-24 hours per day, but hey, keep bumping it so SE can see we still don't like it, and they should hurry up with a patch already.

[tocsin]

snip.

But I DO like it. The sellable bracelets, in my opinion, are the best thing to happen to this game since personal housing came out. it has revitalized a stagnant in-game economy, and given me a reason to play again.

Its also one of the reasons why I resubbed for 180 days, instead of month to month. I like the direction that the game is taking, and hope for the future.

That said, there are 3 parties in this wedding band transaction: SE, the person who bought the band, and sold it for gil, and the person getting the band. SE wins because more money. The person getting the bracelet wins because they can now get married. the loser here is the person who bought the bracelet and sold it for gil, because the IRL money it took to make that 50k, took lon ger to make in IRL than it would have to have played the game.

and we do have pf's 20 hours a day, they are just nearly giving away the bracelets, because they are worthless.

[AdamFyi]

You know what? This discussion is pointless and boring. It's basically the same arguments being thrown around over and over and over and over again, and someone will go, "No, you're wrong and I'm right. All your points are invalid because you have no proof," so I'll leave it with a note (that has been posted a bunch of times already, mind you), that have yet to answered;

I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them.

Before you say "no effort needed", "skipped the gearing process", "shortcut instant-win button bypasses effort " or somewhere along those lines;

Nor does other people's efforts ever get downgraded by the play of others. Effort is still required to get everything, and right now, paying money does not grant you immortality.

The gear was placed on the Market Board for one intention only; to be sold. The only people winning in this situation would be the already 4* crafters selling those gear, SE for gaining profit from selling the bracelets, and the ones who can't shell out some dough to buy a bracelet themselves and decided to get them with gil which is now available to them because they are tradeable. What do the people who sell them get? A world full of hurt, because you don't gain anything worthwhile. Unless bragging rights counts, I guess.

Note: What I meant by "immortality" is that all gear will eventually become obsolete and get replaced between big patches. Just saying.