FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[AdamFyi]

Snip

Although you claim it isn't a personal attack, it can be seen as one - and you're being very rude with that last remark of yours. Anyway, don't clump two sides as same just because they are categorized under the same type. It's like saying cows and zebras are the same because they are, 'herbivores'. "Hey Tommy, look at that herbivore! There's also herbivores at this zoo too! Look another herbivore!" It's a definition, not a name (Real Money Trading; Definition/Category. Real Money Traders; Name).

The only thing you've been explaining so far is 'time-factored pay-to-win'. I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them. Buying BiS gear is also not guaranteed. You can still 'lose' at the game rather than 'win' if you failed with melding materia.

[Taliph]

Although you claim it isn't a personal attack, it can be seen as one - and you're being very rude with that last remark of yours. Anyway, don't clump two sides as same just because they are categorized under the same type. It's like saying cows and zebras are the same because they are, 'herbivores'. "Hey Tommy, look at that herbivore! There's also herbivores at this zoo too! Look another herbivore!" It's a definition, not a name (Real Money Trading; Definition/Category. Real Money Traders; Name).

The only thing you've been explaining so far is 'time-factored pay-to-win'. I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them. Buying BiS gear is also not guaranteed. You can still 'lose' at the game rather than 'win' if you failed with melding materia.

If you want to take my comment as rude, so be it, they say: life is 90% how you take it.

If you want a definition for RMT, the ToS supplies the only one applicable to this discussion. Buying or selling items, ingame services, characters, and currency for real money.

There is also your melding comment, you can buy fully melded crafting/gathering gear... Again you seem to be intentionally obfuscating the discussion.

+1. Its a dead horse, then we beat it up again, then we made it into horse burgers, then threw the burgers against the wall, then ate the burgers, sent them through our system, and then flushed it just to be sure it was extra dead.

I'm glad your server no longer has pf's up 23-24 hours per day, but hey, keep bumping it so SE can see we still don't like it, and they should hurry up with a patch already.

[tocsin]

snip.

But I DO like it. The sellable bracelets, in my opinion, are the best thing to happen to this game since personal housing came out. it has revitalized a stagnant in-game economy, and given me a reason to play again.

Its also one of the reasons why I resubbed for 180 days, instead of month to month. I like the direction that the game is taking, and hope for the future.

That said, there are 3 parties in this wedding band transaction: SE, the person who bought the band, and sold it for gil, and the person getting the band. SE wins because more money. The person getting the bracelet wins because they can now get married. the loser here is the person who bought the bracelet and sold it for gil, because the IRL money it took to make that 50k, took lon ger to make in IRL than it would have to have played the game.

and we do have pf's 20 hours a day, they are just nearly giving away the bracelets, because they are worthless.

[Adrian74]

But I DO like it. The sellable bracelets, in my opinion, are the best thing to happen to this game since personal housing came out. it has revitalized a stagnant in-game economy, and given me a reason to play again.

Its also one of the reasons why I resubbed for 180 days, instead of month to month. I like the direction that the game is taking, and hope for the future.

That said, there are 3 parties in this wedding band transaction: SE, the person who bought the band, and sold it for gil, and the person getting the band. SE wins because more money. The person getting the bracelet wins because they can now get married. the loser here is the person who bought the bracelet and sold it for gil, because the IRL money it took to make that 50k, took lon ger to make in IRL than it would have to have played the game.

and we do have pf's 20 hours a day, they are just nearly giving away the bracelets, because they are worthless.

...Yo...you... Like the direction the game is taking? Do you realize people like you are the cause most P2P go to P2W model later on? Accepting that money should take part on the gaming performance...Oh damn, I won't even search for the facepalm image again...

Loosers or winners, regardless of that. The option of RMT shouldn't be there for starting. Games, especially subscription based ones, should never give a way to make it so real money can somehow affect what you do inside the game.

[tocsin]

...Yo...you... Like the direction the game is taking? Do you realize people like you are the cause most P2P go to P2W model later on? Accepting that money should take part on the gaming performance...Oh damn, I won't even search for the facepalm image again...

Loosers or winners, regardless of that. The option of RMT shouldn't be there for starting. Games, especially subscription based ones, should never give a way to make it so real money can somehow affect what you do inside the game.

'The old order changeth yielding place to new..." Alfred Tennyson

Your ideas of what games should or should not do is outdated. Yoshi-P said himself that he believes the "p2w/f2p cash shop" model, and the "subscription based model" can coexist together to the benefit of the game. this is just the first step.

Be a progressive, and embrace an experiment in innovation!

This p2w model is like a donation button with tiered rewards. if you want to contribute more to making the game better, then you can get in-game rewards. I like that.

[Taliph]

'The old order changeth yielding place to new..." Alfred Tennyson

Your ideas of what games should or should not do is outdated. Yoshi-P said himself that he believes the "p2w/f2p cash shop" model, and the "subscription based model" can coexist together to the benefit of the game. this is just the first step.

Be a progressive, and embrace an experiment in innovation!

This p2w model is like a donation button with tiered rewards. if you want to contribute more to making the game better, then you can get in-game rewards. I like that.

I thought it wasn't p2w? You pro cash shop people flip flop more then you accuse us of.

Edit to add: yoshi actually said that he would not introduce p2w, that a pure vanity cash shop could co-exist with the sub model

[QiLymePye]

You know...this thread is funny. Because I think its more about jealousy than anything. It sounds like we have on one side people that spent a lot of time and effort into the game and can't enjoy it if they see someone else do the same thing in a shorter amount of time, and the other side we have people that really don't care, they just want the game to stay around for a long time. Now this is what i wonder...If all these people that are worried about newbies getting x amount of gil for selling bracelets were to quit their subscription, what percentage of the entire player base would SE lose? I dont think it would be even 5%. Do you know why SE really hadn't done anything about it? because they don't have to. Its temporary. People, just grow up. Who cares that johnny got 10 gil for a bracelet to buy gear that I sold cause i dont even need it anymore? Johnny is paying a sub. he keeps paying a sub. Its not breaking the game.

[tocsin]

I thought it wasn't p2w? You pro cash shop people flip flop more then you accuse us of.

Edit to add: yoshi actually said that he would not introduce p2w, that a pure vanity cash shop could co-exist with the sub model

the bands arent p2w, even close. the idea of p2w in a subscription model, however, is one I can definitely support. Best idea SE has had in the past 6 months.

[AdamFyi]

You know what? This discussion is pointless and boring. It's basically the same arguments being thrown around over and over and over and over again, and someone will go, "No, you're wrong and I'm right. All your points are invalid because you have no proof," so I'll leave it with a note (that has been posted a bunch of times already, mind you), that have yet to answered;

I have yet to see proof that this is a significant advantage over other players. Best in slot gear can be earned given enough time - there's nothing stopping you from getting them.

Before you say "no effort needed", "skipped the gearing process", "shortcut instant-win button bypasses effort " or somewhere along those lines;

Nor does other people's efforts ever get downgraded by the play of others. Effort is still required to get everything, and right now, paying money does not grant you immortality.

The gear was placed on the Market Board for one intention only; to be sold. The only people winning in this situation would be the already 4* crafters selling those gear, SE for gaining profit from selling the bracelets, and the ones who can't shell out some dough to buy a bracelet themselves and decided to get them with gil which is now available to them because they are tradeable. What do the people who sell them get? A world full of hurt, because you don't gain anything worthwhile. Unless bragging rights counts, I guess.

Note: What I meant by "immortality" is that all gear will eventually become obsolete and get replaced between big patches. Just saying.