Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Adormus]

snip

Nah, they couldn't. They'd have to monitor my PC to find out about my parser. If they did that, they'd break more than just a ToS. That's the same reason why bots for personal use are semi-accepted by SE. If you don't use them excessively, there's no way for SE to tell whether you are running one aside from "bot patterns". Seriously, in Costa del Sol I'm stumbling upon more bots than actual players. Even if I say ingame that I'm running a parser. How would they verify that? It was just a joke, you know? At least I haven't seen anyone ranting about being banned for running a parser.

Anyway, on a related note: There's a built-in threat meter in the game. Since DDs generate threat by dealing damage, it acts as a horribly inaccurate DPS meter (quelling strikes, occasional heals, multi target etc.)

What'd happen if I were to kick someone for having a too low TPS output?

[randysquirrel]

Why can't they implement a parser, but have an option to disable it, but also an option that in PF you also have the option to ONLY accept people that have it enabled if you so wish. Only people I see being upset with this would be bad people that are looking for a carry?

[Laerune]

If the player can only monitor his own dps, then I think a dps meter is a fine tool for helping the player improve their game. If others can see the dps of other players and use it to demean others, then the answer is yes. Alot of gamers will say that the meter can be used to tell others to improve, but majority of the time this ends up with someone being insulted and kicked out of the group.

[Kuroyasha]

Put it in and let everyone see it at the end. Competition while playing efficiently and effectively is nice, and no one wants to look bad in front of others, which encourages performance. If you're afraid of someone maybe harrassing, you have options:

1. You can leave the instance after looking at the end stats, since you're not forced to stand and wait until people say something.

2. You can ask for tips, or where to find good tips, on improving your performance(if someone notes your dps is low, not harassing.)

3. You can use the subpar performance as motivation to get better on your own.

4. If people harass(like actually harass/make fun of you. Simply saying "your dps is a little low" or "if you do x you can do much more dps" is not harassment, however much that ego hurts ;D) then report them so they can be handled accordingly.

No point in only showing your own DPS and not having anyone else see it in my opinion. There would be no one to compare yourself against to actually gauge your performance(outside of looking at places like these forums or reddit since people will post there ofc) in that instance. Those who can dps well already can tell without a meter when dps is low from the other dps member/members, so if someone really wants to harass, they're most likely doing it already. There are also those who go in with the mindset of "whatever, let me just get my tomes and go" and keep quiet throughout the dungeon.

I'd welcome the meter. I hate having to rely on others' tools just to measure my own performance (ps4 player). I want to be able to, at the very least, go to any striking dummy and see what my dps is over any period of time I choose. Or better yet, have two modes. One mode is the free mode where you just dps and it measures it until you stop. The second mode could be a set time that the Dev team includes to measure dps for the class, which can be the standard for comparing the theoretical dps when players mention their dummy numbers.

[Adormus]

If the player can only monitor his own dps, then I think a dps meter is a fine tool for helping the player improve their game. If others can see the dps of other players and use it to demean others, then the answer is yes. Alot of gamers will say that the meter can be used to tell others to improve, but majority of the time this ends up with someone being insulted and kicked out of the group.

You are right of course. I am obligated to carry those people through the content and may not kick them for their abyssmal performance, because.... Well, why? I don't get these posts. Insults are a no go of course. But in a group of 7 passable players and a bad one, the 7 people would have to leave the dungeon/raid and get a 30m lockout, just because "Kicking someone over their poor performance is mean!"?

Sorry, no.

[Kazumac]

Alot of gamers will say that the meter can be used to tell others to improve, but majority of the time this ends up with someone being insulted and kicked out of the group.

I know a lot of people running parsers, I've run a lot of PUG groups where people are running parsers and I have only seen one person kicked for low dps (not parser related, see previous post). I have seen numerous times people improving or helping others improve using the data collected. So I vehemently disagree with your anecdotal generalization. Sure it probably has happened but I don't see it happening often (or at all in my experience). If you are truly being harassed there is a way to deal with it (ie report to a gm). If your dps is actually too low to complete said content well, time to improve. Having a parser or feedback from someone who does have one will help greatly in that area.

[Shadray]

Are there really that many bad players around... I can't think of any time I've been in a DF group and had to abandon because of poor dps. (Although I can think of times they die to stupid things over and over)

And if you're in a static then you probably all know each other so if someone is under-performing you can work it through in a civil way.

[DSaint]

I'm new to ffxiv but not new to mmo. I think parsers are bad.

Dont get me wrong: I think its OKAY to kick bad and lazy players from party. But using a computer program to do this? Sorry, I think the lazy player is YOU.
Lets say you have a static of 8 friends and clear a dgn in 50 minutes, then you noticed another group cleared it with 20minutes. Wow, big difference, is not it? If you are lazy, you will begin to watch everyone dps to kick "bad players". But, if you are not lazy, show your friends guides. Try to improve yourself and everyone else reading class specifics guides, then, do another run and try to beat that pesky 50minutes.
Or even better: Understand your mate class and watch him fight. Ask what he is doing. "oh, I see... You are letting twin snake drop for a long time. It's a 10% buff, you know?" IF after this tip he is still doing the same thing, then you kick him.

But using a computer program to measure things? Sorry, you are so lazy as lazy dpsers.
To sum up my thoughts: Do your "measures" with ingame features. Watch your friends debuffs up time (ask him to use rotation in a dummy/enemy, so you can watch it) and buffs up time. Ask about their cross class. Ask about their premade rotation. See if him can avoid AOE properly (dead dps don't dps). And that kind of stuff...

[Adormus]

snip

Wait, you would kick your mates for their poor performance, but only if visible outside a parser? We're talking about randoms here, not a lifelong friend - whom I'd never kick anyway. I'd rather just do content appropriate for them. And why would I have to watch my fellow PUG-players all the time? Your post is completely off mark - and kinda disturbing.

@Shadray: Do you do Garuda Ex via the DF? If not, just try it once or twice. You'll be amazed.

[DSaint]

snip.

No, please, dont get me wrong.
I was being a little (maybe a lot) pragmatic. Trying to tell how those players using parse should act without being lazy. Doesn't mean I agree with them.
I will never kick anyone for such reasons. Plus, I will never stress myself to the point where I will have o tell people what to do. A game to me is 4fun. Try to do your best mate, 'cause I'm trying too. And that is it. I'm not lazy, but I'm not a freak too.

More disturbing are those players using programs to read through someone dps.
"I see you!!" - Sauron, the eye
Players using parsers are so disturbing as Sauron (LoTR).


+

We're talking about randoms here, not a lifelong friend.

I was not talking about random or long life friends, specifically.
I was trying to answer topic question "Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?".

Your post is completely off mark.

again, I was trying to answer topic question "Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?".
It's not off mark. (: