Keeper of The Lake 2.5 Dungeon

[MaethusXion]

The HM version for Toto Rak, Cutter's Cry, Darkhold and Aurum vale was in 1.0. Never to be spoken of again.

So sayeth the SE powers that be. Amen.

TotoRak is the only one of those that was easy, Darkhold & CC & AV 1.0 can all go to hell...

[Airget]

Fenrir and Catoblepas I think the reason why Americans might see these as iconic "summons" is because of the games that came out in america first 1/4/5/6. In both 5 and 6 Catoblepas was a summon, in 6/9/11 Fenrir was a summon.

Catoblepas however was an enemy in pretty much every other FF title.

Similar to Diabolos a summon in 6/8/11 it's easy to see why we may see these summons as iconic when in reality the "iconic" summons are based on FF3 Ifrit-Titan-Garuda-Leviathan-Ramuh-Shiva, and then Odin/Bahamut. Odin and Bahamut are always seen as special cases because Odin's move is usually an instant kill strike while Bahamut is heavy dmg non-elemental AOE.

I guess long story short, what most people see as "iconic" summons is just a case of nostalgia, we grew up on 1-4-5-6-7-8-9 think it wasn't til a bit after 10 where we finally saw 2 and then even longer til we saw 3 via the ds remake.

[Nestama]

FF3 Ifrit-Titan-Garuda-Leviathan-Ramuh-Shiva, and then Odin/Bahamut.

Garuda was actually a boss in FFIII. FFXI is the only Final Fantasy Garuda has ever been a summon. I'm totally being that guy right now.

[Altena]

True, with Diabolos and Fenrir.. I was going to say the same thing until I saw your post. Honostly this fight should be on the level of coil boss's sense hes suppose to be this big epic dragon right..

I would put Siren in that tier of awesome bosses that they ruined by trivializing it to a dungeon.

[Nestama]

Well unlike Diabolos and Fenrir (and Kraken), Siren was actually a challenging fight. As for her existence, well... she's a race. Possibly was the last of her kind (wiped out by the Lominsians, for obvious reasons).

[NoloeTazier]

Siren served her role from the quest into the dungeon, she wasn't all that important in the scope of things overall. Diabolos, while I would have liked to see more from him, honestly, he was nothing more than a boss in a dungeon, they didn't make a bunch of stuff ingame hinting towards him being this huge badass that we'd have to fight or anything, so while he -could- have been important, potentially, no, he wasn't more important than the primals, who had a direct influence in the story of the game. Don't feign to know what I do or don't know about, because yes, I play this game for the lore. I'm simply saying there wasn't enough about either of them to have people claiming they were "wasted" as end-dungeon bosses.

It's already confirmed that Diabolos will make a come back, Devs commented on it and he has a unique death animation (yes he's important in terms of Eorzean History and the War of the Magi). While Fenrir and Siren are stuck with the plain aetherial disbursement. Which makes them less special, there may be multiple Siren in the world if sailors can be believed with their tales of Sirens. For Fenrir there's not enough evidence to say much, personally I was hoping he would be tied into Menphina's Hound (yes Dalamud was called this, but why call a moon a hound, wolves howl "at" moons, etc guesses).

Edit: It'll be interesting to see how SE deals with Midgarsormr. Him coming back to life would give a lot of special properties to dragons, like himself and Nidhogg.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It's not because we're overgeared, it's because he's oversimplified (dodge AoE's, stand behind stalactite, repeat). Yeti and Wandil are harder than Fenrir.

No, mechanically he's a joke.

You hide behind a crystal approx. 3 times & that's the whole fight.

Statistically, there's some merit there, but a lot of SE's dungeon boss mechanics are weak... 1-2 per often per boss.

A lot of Siren's, the Captain's and Zu's difficulty came from hp% based add spawn triggers. To much DpS made the fights harder, not easier, due to having adds or hatching eggs at the wrong times. A group of i90s doing Pharos Sirus could very well wipe themselves even when otherwise doing the mechanics perfectly because of boss timers get out of sync with the add groups. Dogs spawning when the large AoE zones were up, only breaking one hatching egg still causes Zu to enrage because stacks have failed to fall of, and the binding Zombies spawning right before Siren jumps.

Fenrir seems oversimplified because the Iciclies/Lunar Cry are on a Timer and you can't get mechanic overlap. Several of Fenrir's mechanics are also ignorable because of how well characters are geared.

[Nestama]

SE could have included a few more attacks and mechanics to make him difficult. They could have made the stalactites instead of instantly 'charge' at someone (which... I'm not entirely sure HOW they can do that), cast a 2 second cast time Blizzaja over a random player (it'll be AoE too, like Banish III). If the one or two stalactites were still 'alive' between Lunar Cry phases (when Fenrir is casting that attack, they'll switch from casting Blizzaja to charge instead. This is so melee DPS aren't at a massive disadvantage), they will do an arena wide AoE explosion and give Fenrir one-three stacks, depending on how many weren't destroyed. The stacks could also change one attack to something a little dangerous and add some mild annoyances for another.

Let's take Heavensward Howl for example. When fighting him, he will only use that on the tank. With a stack, he instead turns to face a random player (who is not the tank) and does the breath attack that will cover the entire arena he's facing. If he gets two stacks, any time he uses Thousand Year Storm, those miniature ice sprites will appear and swarm the DPS and Healer, exploding shortly after reaching their destination. If for whatever reason the party allow him to get three stacks, then Lunar Cry will destroy the protective stalactite and freeze the players. With three stacks (which also gives Fenrir a Damage Up buff), Fenrir's Ecliptic Bite will guarantee a wipe. This idea is mostly to keep people from ignoring mechanics.

That could have probably been a far more interesting fight and yes, forgot to mention it, you would also need to destroy the third stalactite (which will not attack you with Blizzaja, but will have a DoT aura when you stand near it) as well. Especially after Lunar Cry (it will have lower HP, but you'd still have about 3-5 seconds to destroy it).

[Dererk]

Well unlike Diabolos and Fenrir (and Kraken), Siren was actually a challenging fight. As for her existence, well... she's a race. Possibly was the last of her kind (wiped out by the Lominsians, for obvious reasons).

Hey they can't be having their ships crash on rocks can you imagine how much money Limsa would lose. How ever there wer 3 sirens in 1.0 that wer a part of the blacksmith quest but they were in the form of the 5 races.

[Magis]

I wanna see a Toto-Rak HM just so I can hear an extended instrumental version of "The Dark's Embrace".