Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Kazumac]

Parsers that show others' DPS need to stay illegal. Nothing constructive ever came from those things, either in XI or here. Anything that only shows one's own performance is perfectly within bounds and I'd be more than OK with SE developing something along those lines. Too many people have shown that they are not mature enough to handle a tool that displays other players' performances.

Nothing constructive is a really strong statement that goes against my direct experience seeing how it has helped members of FCs I've been a part of improve in a very positive and encouraging atmosphere. I would not be satisfied with a dumbed down version... All it would do is mean people will still run outside parsers to get a full picture and pretty much not fix the harassment issue that seems to be the biggest concern (at least for the vocal anti parsers).

As for handling those not mature enough to use it without harassing others, I have no issues ostracizing them from my gaming circle or removing myself from thiers. This goes for harassment beyond just parsers too. I suggest others take a similar approach if dealing with the immaturaty of a section of the player base is wearing on you.

[Mykll]

The rest of what I said isn't really countered by your points though. If for some reason 2 ranged dps and 1 tank can't kill the adds during atomos, it's a problem with them not maximizing their dps and has little to do with the melee who are supposed to be attacking atomos.

It does have something to do with the melees on Atomos. If for whatever reason something isn't going well, if you want to prevent a third add to spawn and prevent a wipe, then the melees on Atomos need to have a little bit of situational awareness and help out. You are right, between the tank, 2 ranged DPS (sometimes you don't have 2 ranged DPS to begin with), one of the healers DPS as well, then yes the Atomos DPS should not have to get off Atomos. But, they shouldn't ignore what is happening with the adds to prevent a wipe either.

[NeoZanther]

Depending on how they are used. To belittle someone for their dps is one thing. To help them out is another. I liked having a meter (granted a 3rd party one) on WoW and used it to monitor my own dps and figured out ways to try and improve it. I even managed to with a build not considered strong at the time (Duel Wield Frost DK) and put out the numbers of the better build (2-H DK) just by using the damage meter. Personally I would love to see how well I'm doing dps wise with a meter.

[odintius]

I see it as situational if used in a FC form most likely its pretty acceptable and FC's usually let it been known it used and generally not used for harassment mostly hardcore FC's imo use those. If used while in a Duty Finder/Party finder with random people that's where it starts getting hairy their is no term of it being alright to use and harassment can be caused because it not known or people reject the practice of using it when they just want to play the game and not number crunch everything down to the lowest denominator.

[Adormus]

snip

I have to disagree completely. Let's take the Ex Primals as an example. Today I met a healer with <3900 life there. He died every two steps. So, why do I have to suffer, just because someone chooses to participate in content inapropriate for them? The same goes for any other Ex Primal. And what's the difference between having too low dps and a too small healthpool for a specific encounter?

In times of PUG raids and dungeons, having no ability to see who's dragging you down is inacceptable. Someone mentioned earlier how he "improved with his own group" upon a wipe. Well, try that with a random group and come back here. Just do a Syrcus Tower run and watch how many people are semi-afk. Do I have to suffer their leeching as well, just because it'd be impolite to kick them?

[Ellatrix]

Parsers that show others' DPS need to stay illegal. Nothing constructive ever came from those things, either in XI or here. Anything that only shows one's own performance is perfectly within bounds and I'd be more than OK with SE developing something along those lines. Too many people have shown that they are not mature enough to handle a tool that displays other players' performances.

These are things said by someone who is afraid of his own performance. Unsurprisingly, you don't do raid content.

[Ooshima]

These are things said by someone who is afraid of his own performance. Unsurprisingly, you don't do raid content.

^ this, pretty much.

Those who cared about their own performance actually parses themselves and take constructive comparison with their peers and discuss about it to seek out improvement areas, where they could have went wrong etc.

Criticism comes in all forms. The world doesn't happen to be a bed of roses, so does this game. There will be people who are harsh towards your performance, there are people who puts it in nicer words. You just have to be a little more thick skin if you want to improve your game.

[Nel_Celestine]

Those who cared about their own performance actually parses themselves and take constructive comparison with their peers and discuss about it to seek out improvement areas, where they could have went wrong etc.

So just to fully understand that, those who care about their performance break the ToS? I do rather well as far as I am aware and I don't use any 3rd party tools because world first is less of a concern than keeping my account from being banned.

[Ellatrix]

So just to fully understand that, those who care about their performance break the ToS? I do rather well as far as I am aware and I don't use any 3rd party tools because world first is less of a concern than keeping my account from being banned.

Lucrezia posts world first with parser on top. Most of the dev team probably watched this vid, including Yoshida himself. They aren't banned.

[Nel_Celestine]

Lucrezia posts world first with parser on top. Most of the dev team probably watched this vid, including Yoshida himself. They aren't banned.

it's in the ToS that 3rd Party tools are against the rules and are a bannable offense. Perhaps instead of praising them for world first on that, people should have reported them for breaking the rules to win?