Discuss: Are DPS meters bad for MMOs?

[Gilraen]

"But any close examination will reveal that the experts are having a great deal of this “fun” on a higher level than the scrub can even imagine."

That is all well and good but I'm not them. I will never be them. I don't enjoy turning my fun into a job I pay to work. Some people get alot of enjoyment out of working the numbers till they have every encounter down to a science. I rather enjoy the mystery. Experience the encounters as I encounter them and figure it out the tried and true way, trial and error. Makes the eventual success feel all the more visceral. And I don't care if I'm running with people doing the same even though I've run it many times over. I enjoy sharing their high as they, too, get that visceral win. It's... well, fun! And that's all it needs to be for me. As some have said, parsers are fine if you keep it to yourself unless asked.

[Velox]

Everyone against parsers should read this:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

Keep in mind the part at the top: "it's not advice for everyone; it's only for those interested in winning."

If you aren't interested in winning, then you shouldn't have any issue with players who want to win not wanting to play with you anymore.

This article really only applies to 0-sum games with specific winning conditions. Most of your single-player and co-op games fall into this catagory. MMOs are completely different, especially sandbox MMOs. MMOs allow for the user to create his/her own winning conditions. For example, Player A has a goal to start a role-play driven player event. He/she collects resources, decides dates and times, organizes helpers, and calculates the goals and rules for the participants. If the event goes off without a hitch, Player A has technically "won" FFXIV based on his/her conditions. He/she can put in just as much time and energy into said event as Player B puts into raiding. They both have seperate winning conditions and both are equally valid gameplay. Neither would be considered "scrubs." The same goes for someone who decides to become a master crafter and focus all his/her energy in becoming the best Carpenter on the server. That person's winning conditions is no less important than anyone elses. If you can't win in one aspect of the game, you are free to try another. There are literally thousands of combinations of game-play that are all equally valid.

That's the joy of MMO gaming, it's 100% freedom of choice. Not everything revolves around end-game raiding and parsers. Only a small portion of the community has made these their winning conditions. The problem is that this small percentage of players feels the need to look down on anyone who doesn't enjoy the same aspects of the game. According to the article, a "scrub" is someone who limits their own potential by creating self-defined rules of behavior. If this is true, then 90% of end-game raiders are scrubs because they refuse to try to win outside of their own self-defined rules. One such rule as, "can't beat end-game without a parser."

[Ryel]

So you're blaming the developers for some people being rude to other people who don't parse well?

Nope I'm saying people will be rude regardless of the existence of a parser, almost all endgame strategies (especially the knowledge of DPS checks) were most likely figured out by players who were using them, and by the developers when creating them.

[cookiecutter]

Nope I'm saying people will be rude regardless of the existence of a parser, almost all endgame strategies (especially the knowledge of DPS checks) were most likely figured out by players who were using them, and by the developers when creating them.

Oh I misunderstood then. I agree with you. Certain people like playing one way and others like playing another. If they enjoy playing without parsers then let them enjoy it and, go along on your own merry way. No reason to belittle them just because they don't play the same way you do. There is no right or wrong way to play a game as long you're enjoying it.

[Velox]

Nope I'm saying people will be rude regardless of the existence of a parser, almost all endgame strategies (especially the knowledge of DPS checks) were most likely figured out by players who were using them, and by the developers when creating them.

While this is true, it doesn't necessarily mean parsers are required. People need to remember that this game was designed to be played on consoles as well. Consoles don't have access to 3rd-party parsing tools. This means that every fight in the game is designed in such a way that even a party of eight PS3 players can beat it. That group might have to work 10x harder than another group, but it's still doable. Because of this, we can automatically deduce that parsers are not necessary for end-game content. They are helpful, not denying that, but far from mandatory. It all comes down to player responsibility in the end. This modern generation of post-WoW players would rather look at the individual to place blame in for the party's shortcomings rather than look at themselves and go, "we are all at fault, what can we do to fix it for next time?"

[Ryel]

Many players, myself included have advocated for a in-game score card system like DCUO or even the one currently being used in Frontlines as a means for players to view their own performance in an effort to improve. The framework is already there and would not alienate Ps3/4 players in any way whatsoever, yet somehow the community still takes an issue with this.

[Hollowed]

DPS "meters" are good for MMOs, the end.

[Kaze3434]

This article really only applies to 0-sum games with specific winning conditions. Most of your single-player and co-op games fall into this catagory. MMOs are completely different, especially sandbox MMOs. MMOs allow for the user to create his/her own winning conditions.

not entirely accurate. mmos let the player make personal winning conditions, but those condition only apply to single player events they are doing. those "winning" conditions instantly become faulty when you enter a duty, that gives specific winning conditions. example, winning conditions to beat t12. Defeat Phoenix. someone who has a personal win condition of not using heavy thrust ever may win that condition, but they wont beat that boss.

[Tagihi]

its good for your own playstyle, You wanna push it and get timing on the rotations on ur skills on bosses then it's for you, Some people don't like beacuse always some elitist player suddenly rage on player beacuse that has low dps.

[Gardes]

This modern generation of post-WoW players would rather look at the individual to place blame in for the party's shortcomings rather than look at themselves and go, "we are all at fault, what can we do to fix it for next time?"

So if there's an enemy attack that places a debuff on a party member that explodes on him after a few seconds that will instantly kill anyone within range and the agreed upon tactic is to have the player with the debuff is to run out of the group and he fails to do so, everyone should immediately think "we are all at fault, what can we do to fix it for next time?" ? Everyone starts running away from the player if he gets targetted again instead of telling him it's his fault and he should pay attention next time? Is that not coddling? What if there's another mechanic where the game forces the group to stack up and the player with the debuff has to be the one to run out of the group?

Really, if the dps class is not expected to push out damage as effective as possible, what about the other roles? Should I not be expected to be as efficient and effective with my mitigations as a tank? I can just push my mitigation buttons against nael when he flies away for meteor streams/thermionic beams and be 'naked' when ravensbeak comes and when I just drop dead from it, I can just expect my party to think "we are all at fault, what can we do to fix it for next time?". In the end, if they figure it's me who's screwing around, they'd still look at me to place blame on. Whether they'd tell me politely or not, to help me fix this or just plain tell me off is up to the group, not the parser, if they used one to figure this out.

Like it or not, there's always going to be someone who has bigger responsibilities at different parts of the fights and it's impossible to have mechanics that always involve the whole group so that everyone is always at fault when something goes wrong, especially the fundamentals of this game already separates players into 3 different roles. Parser is just there to help speed up the process. You can just repeat the fight over and over and keep failing and try to observe until you figure out what's wrong but that's like choosing to walk one hour to a destination when you can just take transportation and be there in 10 mins.