Need some WHM Speedrunning tips please

[tocsin]

I'm going to try posting this here, to try to get some help. I have been driven to the point of being fully ready to quit healing for good. Here is my story:

(backstory, can skip)
So, I hit 50 on my whm about 2 months ago. It was my first character leveled, and I did fine leveling it to 50. when I hit 50, it was during 2.3, and I did hunts like crazy and got all i90 gear, and a smattering of i100. Then I was asked to level Pally, which I did. now, about a week ago, I picked up my i94 whm again, and started with the endgame hard mode stuff.
(end backstory)

So, I have been through a fair amount of end game dungeons now (ran about 20 of them total) but I have yet to clear one on a Pug group. every time I go in, a speedrun starts, I fail to compete, they wipe, say "you suck, lrn2play" and then votekick me. This has happened at least 15 times in the past 2 weeks.

The other runs have been with FC members, who have been patient and helped me through them. I'm feeling as if I'm being carried, rather than being competitive in my healing strategy.

I'm mainly looking for tips on how to handle speedruns and the higher levels of difficulty dungeons.

What I have been doing is:

at the start protect
start casting stoneskin 2, but by the time it completes everyone eklse is already 60+ yards away and sprinting towards mobs.
I rush after them, they gather, then stand in place.
I cast a regen on them as soon as I get in range, but by the time I get within 20 yards, tank is already dead.
Swiftcast + res
start casting holy
by the time holy finishes 1 dps is usually dead, if not I divine seal and start spamming cure 2 if the dps hasn't already ran out of range again
tank rezzes, I use benediction to get back up to health, 2nd dps dies
I usually end up dying by this point.

edit: this example is on brayflox hm

anyone have any tips/rotations that I am doing wrong? should I not be stoneskinning at the start of the run? how should I deal?

[Yare]

Cast SS on tank first and then protect the whole party b/c ppl don't usually run away until they get protect. I have two sets and depends on how comfortable I am with the group, I will pick the appropriate one.

First Rotation (only heal mode)
Once tank gets all mobs:
eye for an eye on tank, regen on tank
cure 1 and cure 2 spam
If cannot keep tank healthy, divine seal and continue to spam (shroud of saint when mana is less than 60%)
If dps r getting damages (they are not supposed to... really..), swiftcast + medica 2. (Swiftcast is not just for instant raise.)
Presence of mind and spam cure 1, 2 or medica (NOT medica 2).

2nd rotation (nuking mode).
Once tank gets all mobs,
eye for an eye on tank,
Divine shield + swift cast + medica 2
Regen on tank, and pop shroud of saint.
Cleric stance >presence of mind > holy spam while have tank as target. That way, I can throw a benediction on tank when tank's hp reaches about 10%. Back to holy spam.

[EmeraldAres]

Speed Runs are a regular part of a healer's experience who does not run with friends all the time, due to the popular demand of random players. I am usually not a fan of them myself unless the tank uses cooldowns properly and both damage dealers aoe well, so as to minimize the impact that the healer takes. Unfortunately, at least one member usually fails to live up to Speed Run expectations, making it more difficult for the healer. Due to a number of skilled and geared healers compensating for deficiencies in other roles, it has started to become expected that a healer can deal with almost anything. This isn't always the case, especially at lower gear levels.

I'll start off by saying that it is the responsibility of the tank (and really, the entire group), to check and see if the healer is geared enough to be doing a speed run for that particular dungeon. Beyond that, there are a few specific procedures that I think should always be followed. Keep in mind that the rest of this post is my personal opinion about proper speed run procedure, and that there may be other ways of doing this that other healers employ.

Beginning of the run / buffing
1) Protect is essential, any tank who runs off without letting you do this is asking to die. Prioritize Protect over Stoneskin, but that is not to say that Stoneskin isn't important either. Which leads me to...
2) Stoneskin: When you have time to use it (like people still being in cutscenes at the entrance), prioritize the tank over everyone else. That damage buffer can mean the difference between life and death in a speed run pull. That being said, do Protect first if the tank is the last person out of the cutscene. If you have to choose, do Protect. Unfortunately, in cases where there is more than one mass pull, it may be hard to do a new Stoneskin if the tank runs off. Ideally everyone has this, but if people won't wait this is usually the best you can do. Stoneskin II can be nice with Swiftcast or a group willing to wait 5 seconds, but you never know who you're getting. I'd say use normal Stoneskin outside of 8 man content unless you get good with how to get Stoneskin II onto people.

Speed Pulls

1) When you see the tank charging ahead (hopefully with at least Protect if they don't have a death wish), follow as close behind them as possible while avoiding environmental hazards and possible enemy aoes. If needed, employ sprint to close the gap so that the tank doesn't start getting owned when you aren't even in healing range.

2) The tank should stop at some point, and this is go time. He/she should be using some or all of their cooldowns on the pull (tanks that don't are lazy, inconsiderate, or don't know better), and should be dodging all of the aoes from whatever they pulled. Ideally, both dps should already be there aoeing already, starting the end of the enemies. Get into a safe position nearby and begin casting.

3) Again, this is my procedure: Divine Seal (when tank is stopping to make initial heals strongest), Cure II, Regen, then Cure II / Cure until tank is safe. Then I immediately flip into Cleric Stance, move close enough to the enemies, and begin casting Holy. Make sure you aren't in front of enemies that do aoe cones, and be ready to abort and dodge attacks if you have to. Somewhere in here, you can add Eye for an Eye to reduce damage from the mobs somewhat on huge pulls (you can use this between casts). To aid with your Holy use, there are some tools available. Presence of Mind speeds up your casting, and you may selectively use it to either speed up your Holy spam to do more damage and stun quicker, or accelerate your heals if that's what the tank needs. Swiftcast will let you fire off the first Holy instantly, for an on-demand aoe stun to give you time to set up for more pain or to go back to healing if necessary. Remember well that Holy stuns almost everything, so using it the first couple times will give you slight breathing room from the mob's assault. take advantage of that to either dps more or go back to healing.

4) This is where it gets tricky. Depending on how well your group can SR, the pull may be very easy or very hard. If your group is good (should be speed running), the mobs shouldn't need more than 3-5 holy casts from you (if that many). The dps should be doing some hefty aoe damage, and any damage leftover is their responsibility anyway. That being said, the mobs will either die to Holy or will survive it. With weaker dps and lower healing gear, this will be more common. If they survive, you either have to switch to full healing mode and spam the tank until it's over, or alternate between heavy heals and damage. What you'll have to do depends on the size of the pull, the nature of the enemies, and (again) the rest of the groups competency.

5) Emergency Skills: Both the tank and the healer should be familiar with their emergency abilities. For WHM, that's Benediction. Use it if a tank is going down way too fast, and especially keep it in mind if you just trapped yourself in cleric stance for 5 seconds and the tank is plummeting. Timely use of Benediction can mean the difference between surviving a speed pull and wiping. Don't forget it's there. Also, your tanks each have a skill for delaying death. Smart use of Hallowed Ground can prevent a Paladin from losing HP too quickly, and can even open up a window for you to Holy without consequence. While riskier and less effective, Warrior's Holmgang can also prevent a wipe. Your tank should be prepared to use these skills in addition to their cooldowns. The worst kind of speed puller is the one who never uses a single cooldown and lets the healer do all the work.

6) Post Pull: Don't forget that Shroud of Saints will help your mana refill more quickly if you pop it outside of combat. If there is another huge pull coming up (or a boss, or anything really), pop this as soon as the last enemy dies to get back into realistic fighting shape. Good Bards will Ballad if the healer is struggling, but this is rare (More often they will Foe, which is excellent for Holy). It's best to get used to effectively getting the most out of Shroud so that you can fend for yourself. NOTE: It can also be used to dump threat if your Holy/healing takes threat from the tank mid pull, but this is a worst case scenario. Speed runners hate waiting, and you being low on mana is of no concern for the inconsiderate ones.

A Final Note: The Duty Finder Community

Many of the players you find in Duty Finder are used to spamming the same dungeons constantly, often for tomes or relic quests. They forget who they once were, and will often not go easy on players who are either new or unable to play their class as they see fit. There is no perfect scenario, even when you become a skilled speed run healer. People have all sorts of subtle ways that they do pulls differently (for better or for worse), and you never really know what will happen. In an ideal world, people wouldn't force healers to speed run without even asking permission first, but it has become so expected in popular dungeons at 50 that many will automatically do it without even thinking about it. Anyone who automatically speed runs and then kills themselves because you weren't geared or prepared to deal with several packs at once is essentially committing suicide. I am sorry to hear that you have been getting kicked from Brayflox by some of these people. This is unjustified use of the vote dismiss feature in my humble opinion, and I have left groups before when other players were kicked for a dumb reason by a premade pair out for blood.

I hope at least some of this is useful.

Edit: After typing all of this out in one go and coming out with a mostly-coherent mess, a couple things bugged me after some posters pointed them out. Eye for an Eye should go out early in a pull. Using it late doesn't do any good, like Yare pointed out. Gotta debuff as many enemies as possible as soon as possible. Then there's also what Spoekes said about Shroud: Many healers are probably going to want to use it when they get a little under 3/4ths mana, and it can help a lot with mitigating threat from the enemies if the tank isn't used to speed running either (or just plain can't do it well). This is what happens when you try to post what amounts to an entire guide at 4 AM. Not afraid to admit I was wrong.

[Spoekes]

Sry for not reading the walls of text above, I may repeat something.

Speedrun heal I try doing this:

At the start I buff Protect and usually swiftcast Stoneskin II now.

That way most of the time everyone has buffs and you can stay close to the tank.
Don't hesitate to use sprint to catch up.

For the healing part,
immediatly pop Divine Seal --> Cure II --> Regen --> medica II
Your tank should be at about 80% life with 2 boosted hots (regen+mII)
If ready, pop Presence of Mind --> Cleric Stance --> 3-4 Holys --> Cancel Cleric Stance.

Reapply regen, Shroud of Saints if ready,
after that it may depend on the tanks and your gear, usually hit some cure 2s to top him off and repeat holy spam till mobs are down.
Once out of fight --> swiftcast stoneskin II

This varies with different ppl, quality of DPS, tankgear etc, but i guess it is something you could build a general strategy from.

I bolded out Divine Seal, because it really rocks, has 60 sec CD (available almost every pull) and I see many ppl not use it.

Edit:

Don't forget that Shroud of Saints will help your mana refill more quickly if you pop it outside of combat. If there is another huge pull coming up (or a boss, or anything really), pop this as soon as the last enemy dies to get back into realistic fighting shape. Good Bards will Ballad if the healer is struggling, but this is rare (More often they will Foe, which is excellent for Holy). It's best to get used to effectively getting the most out of Shroud so that you can fend for yourself. NOTE: It can also be used to dump threat if your Holy/healing takes threat from the tank mid pull, but this is a worst case scenario. Speed runners hate waiting, and you being low on mana is of no concern for the inconsiderate ones.

Efficient use of Shroud in most cases is contrary to your point not after a battle, but when you are at about 60-70%, which when using holy in a speedrun is about 20 sec into the first pull.

[Yare]

Eye for an eye is a healer's friend in SR. I like to use it early instead of somewhere in the middle of fight. For two reasons, 1. more chance for mobs w/ debuff for longer duration. 2. it will be ready for the next big pull (hopefully).

[EmeraldAres]

snip

I'm glad you brought this up, because my mind was scattered from writing out so much information at once. You are right. Healers with lower gear levels are more likely to need extra mana inside of a single pull, and in situations like Brayflox there is really only one pull to deal with at a time. While I have had success using shroud in the way I described in other dungeons, it probably isn't good information for someone trying to start out in speed running places like Brayflox, where multiple large pulls aren't right after one another anyway.

[Yumi_umi]

U can always just use protect -> swiftcast stoneskin 2 at the start as ppl usually take a few sec to load etc.
During start of pulls pop sprint cuz u know, heals don't require tp. Once the tank stops moving it means it's time to fight=
- hardcast medica 2 with regen on tank right after with divine seal on
-turn on CS and use swift cast stoneskin on tank
-turn on PoM with shroud activated and then proceed to holy spam till u drop to like 10% mp imo
* go out of cs if tank drops faster than ur mp lol
Also learning how to heal tht much damage with only like 400ish mp at the end is a prob something u might want to practice cuz cure 1 procs with a free cure 2 can make the pull or break it lol
If something is after u, u'll probably have to tank it cuz tank might be too busy trying to not die / might not notice you.

[Spoekes]

You should not Holy yourself down to 10% if it is avoidable by any means... The time you MIGHT save doing that damage will be lost waiting for mana on the next pull - in most cases that benefits noone.

[Velo_Vandore]

EDIT: nice advice posted from others above while i was writing, so sorry for any repetition.

You poor bastard

Which dungeons are we talking about exactly, and speedrun I guess means pulling lot's and lot's of mobs?

It's hard to say what will work for you depending on your particular gear level, the particular dungeon, how many mobs are pulled, the ilvl of other players, how well tank keeps aggro, etc, but some of these tips may work for you:

• Don't worry about holy until you're comfotable with just healing. Using holy reduces the overall need for healing and makes things quicker when you've got the hang of it, but I found it helped to learn the speedrun without dps-ing first.
• If you can't get a stoneskin up before the tank stops don't worry about it. Stoneskin is a slow cast. You might swiftcast it if you really want (and have swiftcast), but I prefer to save the swiftcast.
• Overcure while learning! Start with a cure 2 followed by a regen on the tank, only if you think another cure 2 isn't needed. He'll take huge damage at the start of the fight because that's when the most enemies are alive, so don't wait for the damage to happen - predict it. It's better to overcure with cure 2 spam while learning, then when you get a feel for how fast the tank and other players will start dying you can ease off, and use regens and medica II's. In the same vein, don't wait for the tank to be nearly dead before popping cooldowns like presence of mind. In a speedrun the biggest damage is at the start when most enemies are still not ko'ed - use divine seal and presence of mind right away if available, since you're less likely to need the boosts when enemies start dying off.
• Don't forget benediction. This is a life saver in speedruns. If the dps are taking some damage and you decided to cast medica or medica ii (slow casts), you might see the tank's life dropping rapidly, by the time cure ii casts it might be too late whereas benediction is instant. Again, overcure while learning, don't worry if you waste your benediction this time - play it safe. later you'll get a feel for whether there's time to cast a cure ii before the tank is killed or not.

When you are comfortable with heal only, you might try adding holy/dps to the mix:

• If the tank is good at grabbing aggro (he likely is), start with swiftcast holy, followed by 2 more holy's. The swiftcast is a great on the first holy (if you have it), because it'll provide an almost immediate stun during the most dangerous part of the fight (the start). While learning limit to 3 holy's as the enemies will be resitant to further stuns and you'll likely want to switch back to healing.
• When comfortable (probably higher ilvl too), you may try pushing more holy's until you know it's the last second, then benediction(to full heal tank), shroud of saints (to get some mana back and drop aggro), switch to healing stance (obviously important), regen (might need a cure ii first), then depending on how fast the tank is losing hp, possibly stoneskin (again to give you more time dpsing) and switch back to cleric stance holy spam. This time be even more careful - if benediction and swiftcast are both on cooldown, don't leave it too late to switch back to healing or even perhaps don't bother dps-ing.
• alternatively, don't start with holy. Try to get a stoneskin on tank before the pull (stoneskin 1 is faster to cast, forget stoneskin ii if everyone will be out of range by the time it's cast) - then, when he stops pulling divine seal + regen, start casting another stoneskin, then switch to holy spam. This will work well unless the tank's hp drops too far before the 2nd stoneskin is up. You don't want to go into dps without the tank near full health since you can't take off cleric stance again for a few seconds at least.

Keep trying with duty finder groups, and don't worry about the criticism / kicks. That's just ignorance, and you'll get the hang of it with practice. Playing with friends is great, but if you want to improve, playing with random players can push you.

Also, just because I or someone else tells you do this move, then this move, then this move, doesn't mean it'll work for you. We may be overlooking the difference in our cast time, healing potency, etc. Try to analyse exactly what caused the wipe (whether yours or someone elses mistake) and consider your own strategy to combat that with all the spells/skills you have available.

[EmeraldAres]

Also, just because I or someone else tells you do this move, then this move, then this move, doesn't mean it'll work for you. We may be overlooking the difference in our cast time, healing potency, etc. Try to analyse exactly what caused the wipe (whether yours or someone elses mistake) and consider your own strategy to combat that with all the spells/skills you have available.

This is a very good point too. The decisions and strength of your group and yourself can completely change what you end up doing on a pull, so it's good to be ready to adapt. Furthermore, everyone that has replied so far has done so in a slightly different way. What I'm hoping new healers take away from this thread is the general way of handling the pulls (following close, making sure the tank is prepped, doing some damage and/or healing), and then using the feedback people have provided to come up with an "attack plan" that works for the particular group they are in.