Final Coil Party Reward Restriction

[niwaar]

While I believe you speak mostly the truth I will counter a few things in regards to your statements about how XI worked...

1) Kings had a fixed spawn window. Which were in essence a lockout for everyone who didn't happen to get the pull. Non-Kings had 1 chance per day for an entire server population. Kings had a chance to spawn every 4-8 days locking out whatever group did not pull them. Do we want to go back to the days where those with the lowest latency or the better bots controlled the lockouts?

2) Dynamis did in fact have a lockout. A strict 3 day lockout on content that had first 5 then 9 different loot zones. If your zone on your server was taken during your Dynamis period... well you were locked out. (Sure this wouldn't happen in today's instanced content driven world but still...)

3) Sky/Sea were driven by a token system. Most of which were locked out a combination of 1-3 hour spawn windows. If you did not obtain the trigger from defeated the monster or finding the ??? during that window, you were locked out. Sure it was for a much shorter time, but it was locked out.

All in all XI ran off a different system of Lockouts than most modern MMOs. It ran on a system of competition resulting in a fixed number of loot opportunities across the entire server. (And then they were not a 100%)

XIV runs on a fixed opportunity for loot per person. Resulting in a "fair" chance for everyone to loot something per week. While XI's system was imbalanced easily by strong competition.

That being said, the "4 and 8 player only" content locks XIV into a system that is not ideal for long term. Not because it does not allow us to "swap others" in and out, but because of the "single job" loot and the larger job pool brought on by Heavensward and beyond. We need a larger group size, possibly 12 or 16 players. The reason why XI worked even with the sheer number of jobs it had was because of the larger alliance size and the free form content style. The more jobs we get the worse this issue will become. The system needs to be modified and fixed going into Heavensward. (While we are at it, maybe add in Support Classes)

[Kiara]

That being said, the "4 and 8 player only" content locks XIV into a system that is not ideal for long term. Not because it does not allow us to "swap others" in and out, but because of the "single job" loot and the larger job pool brought on by Heavensward and beyond. We need a larger group size, possibly 12 or 16 players. The reason why XI worked even with the sheer number of jobs it had was because of the larger alliance size and the free form content style. The more jobs we get the worse this issue will become. The system needs to be modified and fixed going into Heavensward. (While we are at it, maybe add in Support Classes)

Hi niwaar,

Yes, that's true (about XI). I think the reason why it was more acceptable (for myself and my friends back then) was because there was always something to do during the week. It wasn't just a "Coil Event" for one night and you're locked out / done for the week. Rather you could have your Dynamis runs (twice a week), with multiple objectives, or going to Sky another night, or Sea the next night, or if you got Kings camping / claim, or even minor NMs solo / duo / small group of friends, etc. I'm *not* advocating long timers on HNMs like XI.

Instead just noting from a player perspective, it was much more friendly to having a more Flexible amount of players participating in various events, and you could even swap people out of the Alliances if problems arose (deaths during the battle, or if someone couldn't make Sky, Sea or Dynamis, they could go again next time.

It was a healthier community, and not one fixated on "8 Player Static Only" (everyone else might as well not even exist).

And besides that in XIV 1.0, Yoshi P's team created a 100% Token System with a Less-Than-100% Drop Rate for the Real Desired Treasure, for the main challenges back then. So you had the best of both worlds:

* The "Lottery / RNG" Feel that he seems to like sometimes *and* the "Steady Progress Towards a Goal" (Tokens) if you were unlucky.

It's sad that they got rid of this concept in 2.0. It could've benefitted many players in a variety of events (Atma (pre-nerf), Coil, Primal Mounts).

And "yes," I agree the Loot Pool per Chest is getting ridiculous as well (and going to get worse in 3.0). Farming T9 forever and still haven't gotten a couple weapons I was aiming for. It's silly, but that's RNG.

[Staris]

The RNG drop system is the one that makes the most amount of sense for SE as a company, and for most groups (admit it or not makes no difference).

Just on psychological principle a random interval reward is a far better motivator then a scheduled interval. This means highest amount of subs per time. This is not speculation it is a fact of our behavior as humans. (google it)

If the token system existed, say you cleared final coil 5 times, or 8 times, or whatever and everyone got a weapon for mainspec, the motivation of many groups (or individuals) to keep running content would drop like a rock afterwards. With time between content being what it is, people would quit, groups would fall apart, time would be wasted gearing new people and recruiting.

If it was say 20-30 clears, to pace it with new content better, groups would be behind ones that cleared earlier, people would get angry at the system, more casual players would never see a weapon, ever. Many would never even attempt it.

Its also not the end of the world if you never get any drops.... 5 item level difference on weapon slot. You can still hit 130 if you never see a rng drop. You could easily have beaten turn 11 without 115 weapons, and gotten a 120. Yes it is not ideal, however, it is also highly unlikely your entire team would not have 115 weapons by then.

RNG = more subs, longer group life, more excitement when you win something.

If you don't like it, make your own game and see how well it does. (Free 2 play in days).

[Kiara]

Hi Staris,

Oh I've definitely seen the motivation of pure RNG. :P Not sure if you were around for 1.0, but you should've seen the absurd amounts of groups spamming our hardest content back then for RNG drops via the Cutter's Cry / Aurum Vale 5 Chest Speed Runs. I knew one JP friend who did over 250+ runs and never got their Chest Drop. Pretty awful.

While it may be the most popular / highest subs, there should be room to improve systems as time goes on. On that principal, why wouldn't everyone copy McDonald's (whose success of Billions upon Billions of Customers is undisputed)? Because there is room for different types of success.

Pure RNG (w/ Low Drop Rate) is definitely a throwback to earlier days of MMOs. We've seen the outcry on Atma (pre-nerf) in 2.0. While I got my full set of Atmas in a reasonable time, I know a couple friends who never finished their Atmas (and not for lack of trying). One friend went on a streak of over 200 FATEs with not a single Atma drop.

A hybrid system seems like a good compromise in this era of instant gratification: You can still get your RNG motivation as you say (that "lottery feel"), and still offer Tokens. It just depends on how many Tokens are required for a trade-in is all.

If that gets us to a point where there's less of a stringent Weekly Lockout and can get more players helping each other, it's something I know I'd relish far more than what we have now.