Group doesn't have a BRD, how are melee supposed to dps?

[Kiokin]

I'm curious how NIN/MNK are expected to dps in fights with high mob uptime, such as t10/t11, without a BRD. My current raid group doesn't have a BRD, so I went NIN as they were more self sufficient than a MNK and the dps loss wasn't too bad. Enter the 2.45 TP changes and I run out of TP at the same speed as a MNK, so what exactly am I supposed to do?

[SpookyGhost]

There's only one solution, and that's get a BRD. Every other possible solution will result in someone or multiple people being TP/MP starved.

[Spayd]

It's pretty rare to see a raid group without any bard in it, Their utility is too important to not bring them. If your melee dps dies, which is more likely to happens unless you are really well in FCoB, your Healer might not want to raise you so they can keep mp and keep tank alive. If only for Mp song that bard is necessary, i thing you should get one or be one. But not my raid group, up to you mate!

[Kiokin]

We used to have a BRD, but lost him around when we started t9. There are enough breaks in that fight to not run out of tp, and I also switched to NIN around that time so there were even less problems. As it is now, we have no one that can or wants to switch to BRD so...guess I'm just out of luck. Really confused why SE would design melee to be dependent on a BRD.

[lxChrisxl]

We used to have a BRD, but lost him around when we started t9. There are enough breaks in that fight to not run out of tp, and I also switched to NIN around that time so there were even less problems. As it is now, we have no one that can or wants to switch to BRD so...guess I'm just out of luck. Really confused why SE would design melee to be dependent on a BRD.

i'd help you out but i'm in gilgamesh. best i can tell you is to ask on party finder for a bard to join your group. doing shiva or fights like t8 is going to become a chore without one. as for why SE did it, they're trolls? :b

[Kiokin]

i'd help you out but i'm in gilgamesh. best i can tell you is to ask on party finder for a bard to join your group. doing shiva or fights like t8 is going to become a chore without one. as for why SE did it, they're trolls? :b

The problem is we have a full group, but no one that has a BRD/wants to play it. It's incredibly frustrating that SE has designed the group dynamic as such that if you bring melee, a BRD is 100% mandatory.

[Ooshima]

The problem is we have a full group, but no one that has a BRD/wants to play it. It's incredibly frustrating that SE has designed the group dynamic as such that if you bring melee, a BRD is 100% mandatory.

Not sure how it would eventually play out in the future about BRDs, because one of my friend's group cleared T13 weeks ago without a BRD.

[RinchanNau]

Not sure how it would eventually play out in the future about BRDs, because one of my friend's group cleared T13 weeks ago without a BRD.

Yea. BRD isn't needed, but Ballad can certainly be a useful tool for extending pulls during progression. Helps the healers be able to spam heals when the tanks and them don't know the timing for the damage spikes yet.

However, I disagree with the other poster. BRD is not mandatory if you bring melee. Paeon isn't mandatory. Proper TP management is mandatory. And the OP mentioned having a NIN. That certainly helps the MNK a lot. More than Paeon would. The NIN however will need to know how to ramp things up and slow it down to maximize their damage dealt with their finite TP supply. It's the same sort of things a SMN needs to do. SMNs don't get Ballad every time they get low.

[Ooshima]

Yea. BRD isn't needed, but Ballad can certainly be a useful tool for extending pulls during progression. Helps the healers be able to spam heals when the tanks and them don't know the timing for the damage spikes yet.

However, I disagree with the other poster. BRD is not mandatory if you bring melee. Paeon isn't mandatory. Proper TP management is mandatory. And the OP mentioned having a NIN. That certainly helps the MNK a lot. More than Paeon would. The NIN however will need to know how to ramp things up and slow it down to maximize their damage dealt with their finite TP supply. It's the same sort of things a SMN needs to do. SMNs don't get Ballad every time they get low.

Yeap, in fact the T13 grp I spoke of runs DRG/MNK/NIN during the clear. 3 mDPS without a BRD, no paeons. It just shows that BRD isn't a requirement, at all, or anymore.

However I think BRD still have a place right now, because as one of my FC mate also have pointed out, only the top teams have the brains to properly manage their TP, and their healers good enough to not require ballad. Teams with bad healer MP management and TP management will still give BRDs a job, but not sure for how long, because as time passes, good people get better and in the long run if BRDs doesn't get some WD/dmg adjustment and the DPS gap widens, we might find ourselves in a situation where we are not required in good teams and ended up only in weaker teams that still needs our utility.

EDIT: Actually I'm not too sure about ballads extending progression pulls right now. Because usually if you go in blind and handles mechanics blind, you just die to it easily, you probably won't have the time to actually critically required to play your songs.

Then when you got the mechanics, you are down to 2 types of groups: good grps that get their shits together fast, and clear it. Well, then, ballad and paeon might not be needed once you manage it well and what helps is Foe Requiem. But then if BRDs doesn't get some adjustment soon and dmg gap widens, why bring a BRD then?

Another type of grp: needs your ballad to keep the pull longer. Probably you will end up enraging a lot of times because people keep dying and you kept singing ballads for healer's MP. If that's the case, you aren't in for fast progression, you might end up looking for better groups which eventually doesn't need you as explained above, or you have to accept that you will be stucked to groups that need you, like elaborated in this para.

[Kiokin]

First, I am the MNK and the NIN. I play either and with the recent tp nerf, they both run out at the same time. Our other melee is DRG, and he has no TP problems.

Second, there is no "slow down TP consumption." We do not have the tools to do that except to stop attacking, and that doesn't solve the problem in the first place.

Third, T12 and T13 have enough breaks that TP isn't a problem. T10 and T11 do not. You need a BRD for those.