Repetitive grind parties should NOT be the main source of leveling

[Godryc]

Would love to see the main form of progression through the game move away from grinding parties and leves (both solo and party). I think leves could find a place in the game as secondary content (almost where they are now they just seem more prominent because there still isn't a lot to do)

Party or solo there has got to be a better way to experience and progress through the game. Most games use quest after quest after quest. Its been done to death and while I personally feel its better than the progression we currently have I don't think there is a game out there that has really made such a great questing system that I'd just want it copied into FF14.

I think what many of us are looking for is a way to experience the game world actively (without a wall of text) in the form of adventure and exploration. Siobu's Eorzean redesign thread talked about this a lot. Grinding in a party will get you levels but certainly doesn't expose the player to much beyond the scenery.

A new variation on progression through questing (the idea being that its more fun and deeper than other systems) or something else. As Ventus said, brainstorming sounds good.

[Murugan]

Would love to see the main form of progression through the game move away from grinding parties and leves (both solo and party). I think leves could find a place in the game as secondary content (almost where they are now they just seem more prominent because there still isn't a lot to do)

Party or solo there has got to be a better way to experience and progress through the game. Most games use quest after quest after quest. Its been done to death and while I personally feel its better than the progression we currently have I don't think there is a game out there that has really made such a great questing system that I'd just want it copied into FF14.

I think what many of us are looking for is a way to experience the game world actively (without a wall of text) in the form of adventure and exploration. Siobu's Eorzean redesign thread talked about this a lot. Grinding in a party will get you levels but certainly doesn't expose the player to much beyond the scenery.

A new variation on progression through questing (the idea being that its more fun and deeper than other systems) or something else. As Ventus said, brainstorming sounds good.

That's where you are wrong grinding in parties introduces people to other players, to how to play their class in a group, and to various different mob types and their abilities/weaknesses. Solo quest games (the alternative main form of leveling for example in WoW) produces a complete lack of a community, players who don't know to play their class in groups, and who are woefully ignorant of mob weaknesses/strategies.

The problem with questing is that it is just as much of a "grind", unless you are honestly fooled by a few lines of text and some running back and forth to an NPC, but with much less to gain from actually having a competent group to tackle it with. What we have now is better, and it should only be improved. There is no reason to go backwards to more whack-a-mole squashing pointless drivel like guildleves or your standard MMO quest leveling. That type of gameplay is better suited for solo players who do not have time to do anything with other people.

[DeadRiser]

I was grinding kobold and raptors at r27 with 4 others earlier today. We were getting 250 on kobolds and 340 on raptors a kill. It's not bad, and I'm glad it's not the same "let's quit this leve to ensure we get the same rediculous sp next time ok?". I rather grind parties. It feels more MMO to me and I like it. Hopefully people don't want to change it because repetitive leves wasn't fun. Atleast mobs change when you rank up. Leves are the same >.>

[Ventus]

I wish I could just burn this thread to the ground. I've never seen Ul'dah or the community more active than since 1.18 with groups forming for XP parties at all level ranges.

While the patch wasn't perfect, it was by far the best thing to happen to this game to date. Some people complain about anything, but the revitalization of XP parties were a wonderful and necessary addition to the game.

Other MMO's should take notes, this is how you foster a good community in your game.

So much for adding anything productive to the thread, but oh well >.>.

Some people need to change their attitude and realize this is a platform for DISCUSSION and not where we say:

I wish I could just burn this thread to the ground.

I wish I could burn your comment to the ground =O! Oh snap! How you like that?!

[Wolfie]

You can make challenging group content that's for leveling without pushing grinding as the main (or only) source of good leveling experience. Grinding is just the easy and lazy way out.

[Ventus]

One thing I'd like to people to respond to is this:

the main staple people plug for grind parties is "better world immersion/exploration and stronger sense of community" but there are literally HUNDREDS of other ways a game can accomplish this and be ten times more entertaining than killing the same monster 100,000 times.

On top of that we can explore the world while being part of the game's story without grind parties. Plenty of other MMOs have you doing limitless exploring while taking you along a fun storyline.

[Murugan]

One thing I'd like to people to respond to is this:

the main staple people plug for grind parties is "better world immersion/exploration and stronger sense of community" but there are literally HUNDREDS of other ways a game can accomplish this and be ten times more entertaining than killing the same monster 100,000 times.

On top of that we can explore the world while being part of the game's story without grind parties. Plenty of other MMOs have you doing limitless exploring while taking you along a fun storyline.

Yeah there literally aren't though, no other MMO has reproduced a quality community through the horrors of solo (mindless) quest grinding. FFXI tried to innovate with it's myriad of activities, and while they were fun diversions they too did not compare. Grouping for XP is the only viable option. If you don't like it then you can solo or do other things which aren't efficient, but stop calling for them to destroy incentive (and thus the possibility) for a tried and proven way to level in an MMO which has lots of beneficial effects for the community/game.

[Ventus]

Grouping for XP is the only viable option. If you don't like it then you can solo or do other things which aren't efficient, but stop calling for them to destroy incentive (and thus the possibility) for a tried and proven way to level in an MMO which has lots of beneficial effects for the community/game.

I think that's a bit close minded to say "Grouping for XP is the only viable option.", it doesn't provoke much thought and produces a fallacy called a "false dichotomy". There are always other options.

Now I dont mean soloing is the alternate way of immersion in the game, what I mean is that group activities beyond grinding can be a lot more fun then just killing common monsters over and over

[Reaujien]

While blanket statements such as the title of this thread bother me to some degree I remember regardless what almost anyone says about their feelings relating to the current state of this game and how it will be patch after patch that they're simply subjective in nature. And that's fine - really it is. That's what these forums are for (I guess). The sad part is that they end up turning into Hemingway-like novel-of-a-post from the people who are the loudest at being subjectively negative, and thus give the wrong impressions to either the readers or, sadly but hopefully not, the dev team(s). I guess that's no different than the restaurant dilemma: hundreds (or maybe thousands) of people have such a GREAT experience at restaurant Bob's Burger Joint but tell no one; one person has a "bad" experience (even if just trivial) and MY GOD I'M GOING TO THE NATIONAL NEWS, FACEBOOK, TWITTER, WITH THIS BULL PUCKY TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS HOW BAD THIS IS!!!! *GRRRRRR I'M ANGRY AT LIFE* So yeah, that's what these forums have been lately...

...that's too bad, but I guess that's the nature of the internet...

Though I know what the OP means by "grind", in reality that word itself is subjective. I mean, take FFXIV for example, you could "grind" on levequests to get your levels/ranks; you could "grind" on the typical xp parties that were common in FFXI to get your levels/rank; you could even "grind" on quests to obtain your levels/rank. I would even go insofar as to argue that no matter what the "method" is, it's a "grind" - 'tis the nature of any level-based RPG. Especially a Final Fantasy RPG. And perhaps that's what some people (especially the "loud" people) are forgetting: This is a Final Fantasy game, and being the fourteenth installment I would only hope that this game would follow certain "expected" qualities as the last 13+ did. I would further go insofar as to also argue that one of the two most distinctive qualities of all of the Final Fantasy series was that to succeed you had to have a well-played strategy and as a single player you never progressed through the game - from start to finish - with just one character; they were all heavily party-based gameplay. And that's where I get so confused as to why people in this game's community get so upset at the producer and the dev team(s) for creating patches that gear this game more towards party-based gameplay and rewarding those who execute well-played strategies.

Now, I understand that it's a headache sometimes trying to find a nice xp party if that's the most productive and lucrative way to build and grow your character (and by "xp party" I'm referring to the FFXI-style xp parties). Trust me, as a 6-year veteran of FFXI the majority of my play time was very much pre-WoTG and maybe even pre-ToAU - and definitely pre-level sync - and there have been many times where I was painstakenly sitting in Jeuno for HOURS on the weekends with my LFP/LFG flag up, shouting, "<job> LFG XP PT {Long time.} {Yes, Please.} Area: O {Please invite.}" However, as much as those times were a headache, the times where I had this OMFG-AWESOME xp party for like 6 hours completely overshadowed the frustration of the days where I was, well, just shouting.

Of course there was some bad parties, but there were also many more good parties - whether they were short-lived or lasted hours and hours. And yeah, even some levels were like "please kill me know because I'll never get 2 more levels to use this awesome new spell/ability", but man when you finally got to that level and got that spell/ability it was like total gamechanger for your job - SHARINGA!!~~ In the end, when you got to level 75 you really felt that you "earned" it, and appreciated your investment in your RPG character even more. (No, I didn't marry anyone in that game that was a little too far for me....).

I'm hoping I can have similar experiences in FFXIV as I did in FFXI. I mean, why else would I buy the 2nd MMO installment of Final Fantasy if not to have new experiences but with a familiar context? But, ya know, that's just me; subjective nonetheless.

[Godryc]

I think that's a bit close minded to say "Grouping for XP is the only viable option.", it doesn't provoke much thought and produces a fallacy called a "false dichotomy". There are always other options.

Now I dont mean soloing is the alternate way of immersion in the game, what I mean is that group activities beyond grinding can be a lot more fun then just killing common monsters over and over

I agree Ventus, party game play can be emphasized without resorting to mindless grinding. The only fun I can really imagine being had in that mindless grind situation is socializing with your friends/group mates. That's fine but where is the fun game play? Hours and hours of the same objective over and over (kill anything in sight) for no other reason that to gain a level, is this the height of MMO's? I really hope not.

So yes to those of you that want a discussion along the lines of what Ventus has been saying, how about the role of interactive environments in this game. Quests that instead of just send you from point A to point B, find ways to come to life and tell a story and provide an adventure where the only text is dialogue and the rest of it happens in front of you as an experience not some NPC's recollection of events just past.

Not talking about cinematics either. I suppose i'm talking about scripted NPCs, both enemy and ally and anything that could be built from that or added to it. Also these events could take advantage of the social and often party based aspect of MMOs and require parties to split up and work together in the same relative location but at two things at once. ie one team has to hold off waves of enemies while the other has to solve a puzzle and tackle a mini boss type monster.