We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Rgaze]

Even assuming full resources, SMN would lose to everyone but BRD and pre-2.45 DRG in T8. With resources it was BRD level, and that's assuming a BRD who sings Paeon's a portion of it.

Well.......that leaves mnk and blm if we're talking pre 2.4. Blm is more RNG based but on average I always found myself doing extremely similar dps as the many skilled blm I played with. So it was really just mnk that won out. I'm sorry but I don't see the weakness, other than the mana struggle. Also nin would beat us when it was new but they already nerfed the class and I think it's way too early to have any concrete info on where DRG and nin stand compared to smn since 2.45 dropped yesterday.

[Sleigh]

Well.......that leaves mnk and blm if we're talking pre 2.4. Blm is more RNG based but on average I always found myself doing extremely similar dps as the many skilled blm I played with. So it was really just mnk that won out. I'm sorry but I don't see the weakness, other than the mana struggle. Also nin would beat us when it was new but they already nerfed the class and I think it's way too early to have any concrete info on where DRG and nin stand compared to smn since 2.45 dropped yesterday.

The difference is pre-2.45 DRG would be LB3ing and bringing a DPS boost to BRD while still being competitive with SMN numbers, so the contribution is way higher. SMN brings nothing but less DPS in a fight like T8, and is just the worst class to bring on T8 (and T10-13).