FFXIV - A Step to P2W (My 2.45 Feedback)

[AdamFyi]

I fail to see the pay 2 win stuff you're talking about.

It's more of a player-created pay-to-win than the actual thing, so I don't blame you for not seeing it. The developers are partly responsible, albeit to a lesser extent, because it was not in their intentions nor did they expect it... probably.

[KerenRhys]

It's more of a player-created pay-to-win than the actual thing, so I don't blame you for not seeing it. The developers are partly responsible, albeit to a lesser extent, because it was not in their intentions nor did they expect it... probably.

Which is really unbelievable after all that already happened in the game since the release. Maybe they'll have to begin thinking a little more about the consequences of their decisions because they don't expect what happens pretty often (some examples are selling runs, the reaction over the hunts, etc...). And in most cases, a little experience with MMO is all that's needed to predict how the players will react.

Sure, people can make mistakes, but when they repeat very similar ones, maybe it's time to try to learn from them.

[Wildsprite]

Which is really unbelievable after all that already happened in the game since the release. Maybe they'll have to begin thinking a little more about the consequences of their decisions because they don't expect what happens pretty often (some examples are selling runs, the reaction over the hunts, etc...). And in most cases, a little experience with MMO is all that's needed to predict how the players will react.

Sure, people can make mistakes, but when they repeat very similar ones, maybe it's time to try to learn from them.

I just have 1 thing to say to that
Final Fantasy XI updates for like the first 6 years

[QiLymePye]

I look at this as more of a morals thing. Yes you have people selling the bands online for gil. those are the ones you should attack if you dont agree. They are the ones taking the "easy" way out. i don't think its even that easy because they have to buy something that they dont really want with real money and hope to sell it for gil. i think its a gamble anyways. But i dont care. yes it takes away from it being something you work hard for when someone can outright buy it, but guess what, there are people who have tons of Gil and not even using it. this would actually stimulate the economy in the game because they will spend gill and give it to people who will "actually" spend it on things, making some of these ridiculous priced items in the MB drop in price.

[Ashgarth]

but guess what, there are people who have tons of Gil and not even using it. this would actually stimulate the economy in the game because they will spend gill and give it to people who will "actually" spend it on things, making some of these ridiculous priced items in the MB drop in price.

Why are we not using our gil? Maybe it's because since all the worthwile gear in this game is a dungeon/raid drop all we can do with it spend it in vanity stuff like weddings, mounts or rare dyes.

Oh wait, I can't, I gotta pay 3.5€ to dye an armor with metallic blue, 28€ for a fancy wedding and 16€ for a mount.

Why the hell am I making money in this game?

Also, please explain to me how things selling faster makes them drop in price.

[QiLymePye]

I was talking about items on the marketboard. And im just saying that this will put alot of gil in the hands of people that might actually spend on the mb. Im not saying that its necessary, im just saying that it could be looked at as a positive. somewhat...

[AdamFyi]

The maintenance seems to not have addressed the issue that was discussed here. So after careful consideration on their actions, I had made a big post and decided to bring it to this topic as it is relevant. Apologies if this offends anyone.

I have posted about this in other topics. According to the latest official statement on the matter, we can conclude that this whole ordeal was caused by the players (and to some extent the developers).

However, this issue sparked an outrage because people were making gil off the Bracelets. They started comparing this to RMT-activity and also a pay-to-win method. From the respose we got, this wasn't intentional on the developer's part. A lot of the backlash had nowhere to go because people were denying that it was the players themselves who chose to sell them for gil, and also the ones who decided to buy them with the gil.

[Sarcasm]Since we all know the player's are always right and can do no wrong[/Sarcasm], the Cash Shop and SE were made the prime targets of the issue and players just attacked them for it. No, the player's aren't the only reason; The developers had some part in it due to human error and an oversight on their part. Though, everyone overlooks the former because they rather not blame themselves.

There was some confusion made on the opposing side as their arguments were based on having the economy destroyed because of Gil entering the economy. However, this was immediately dismissed because it was shown that some amounts of Gil was actually going out of he economy and entered the void through housing and market taxes.

So now we were left with only the pay-to-win argument. We've established that the issue was in no harm to the economies as Gil was actually going out of the economy which is good in order to slow down the inflation, and that the pay-to-win factor was actually player-created. So what does this mean? It means that this whole issue was caused by people taking offense and taking it to a personal level.

There were topics describing how they would very much prefer to have this become a major Gil sink when we had very little information about the system and argued that access to the content should be free to everyone even to those who don't have the budget to spend extra. What happened is that even though people do have access to it through other means, such as getting a friend to buy it for him and paying him back through Gil, possibly the players who don't have the Gil nor can they afford to get it directly are taking offense to it. I don't support nor do I care about people selling it for Gil, as that is something us players have to try to fix ourselves to strengthen our community bonds.

The way how Gil is being thrown out of the economy, I do think it is healthy for the economy. We do not have many Gil sinks to balance it out. We only have teleport costs, housing prices and market board taxes in-game right now. And with the way it is now, people are able to avoid a lot of these gil sinks already which doesn't help that the amount of gil going into the economy is too great. The rapid purchasing of houses removes a crap ton of gil to boot so inflation does not become an issue for now.

The argument for the pay-to-win is as simple to rectify as RMT-activity; Don't become a buyer. Yet, here we are because there are buyers that are willing to part with tons of thousands of Gil to get what they want. This is what players are upset about and have taken offense to it; players gaining gil from these buyers rapidly. This is what I'm trying to point out. I don't condone the act of selling cash shop goods, but I can accept the fact that this can potentially solve inflation within our economy, and should anyone else take this as an offense, please don't.

What people do with their gil is entirely up to them. You shouldn't be offended by another player's spending habits in the first place. They are only getting these items at a much faster pace. They do not gain an advantage over you on crafted gear other than time. You can practically obtain all the materials youself for free by farming content and then getting a friend you know personally to craft it for you.

In short, I'd rather SE look into this issue more carefully before deciding anything. I don't want this to turn into a, "the players are always right and everything we say has to be done", kind of game. Sometimes, opinions get the best of us, and a lot of the time, they are good suggestions. However, we as players do have to understand that if the developers did everyone we asked them to, we would end up with nothing more than a broken game.

With that out of the way, let me discuss the pay-to-win aspect with you. Players have argued that the players taking advantage to this is causing a pay-to-win environment. So I did a little research and dug a little into the matter. So I would like to share my findings, my experiences, and my opinions. Most of which are already explained in the quote above, so I'll try to keep this brief.

I looked into the matter by turning my thinking around and looked at the situation from a different angle. What I discovered is something that throws away the pay-to-win argument out the window in no time flat. What was argued was that these players who obtained gil by selling the Bracelets are gaining signifigant advantages by buying gear from the market and gearing up to the teeth with the best gear Gil can buy. Allow me to point out one flaw to this argument; time.

Given some thought, you will realise that the advantage they gained is just the time it took to get what they wanted. That is the only advantage. I've looked into the recipes of those crafted gear and materia and discovered that you can obtain every single material for free. The only downside the the fact that it takes time to gather up these materials. This can also be said for buying clears. Given the time, I think everyone has the capability to defeat every fight without having to pay a single Gil. The people selling these clears are cashing out on player's impatience. So what does this mean for us? We're all very impatient.