We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Atomnium]

Please Flare, I know you, I know you're smarter than this, and you know that is not true, and almost the exact opposite. Every single good Black Mage, and honestly - every good player in the game - should know exactly what bosses are going to do next. Black Mage especially as they want to minimize movement as much as they possibly can to maximize damage output.

Summoners do fine up until the moment they run out of MP. That's their one and only problem abilities wise. Which could easily be solved by making Aetherflow and Energy Drains give more mana and raising the mana cost of Scholars spells a little bit to make up for the increased mana. Perhaps lowering egi accuracy to caster would be a decent buff to, too give them a slightly better set variety in gear.

I think you misunderstood my quote, I'm sorry. I wasn't stating that blm can be totally "brainless" against any fight, my comment was directly pointing to blm mps management, which doesn't exist at all.
As a blm and like any other jobs in fcob you will care about your movements and what is going to happen next, it is obvious, meanwhile as a "stress-factor-bonus" for smn you have to perpetually think about your decisions on your mps management and it is somehow doable... Till it's no longer the case and no matter what you do, when the mp factory is out of order and your Aetherflow still got 30 secs before being ready......... This is what I feel :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa95vyjloDM

[Sapphic]

Here is what I'd change:

- Correct egi accuracy to the SMN's accuracy requirement, it makes no sense to have a different accuracy cap for a pet.
- Energy drain mp returns should scale with the damage dealt like the hp drain component does instead of a flat amount.
- Energy Drain potency up by 50 (summoner only trait)
- Miasma II mp reduced by 30
- Ruin mp reduced by 10
- Tri Disaster rework - (and renamed) next spell cast cost 0 mp 90 sec cd

That should do it.

- Move Contagion to a SMN ability and give Garuda Egi something in replacement

For MP, maybe an ability where you can sacrifice a % of the Egis HP to replenish mana. Something like Sacrifice: Drains upto 50% of your Egis HP to your mana pool. 5 min CD. Ask WHM to throw a regen on pet and GG.

Decent CD to not make it OP, and a cost involved for a decent top up.

[Alistera]

I must say I agree with the general opinion of people in this thread, I played summoner since the release of ARR and recently changed my main to ninja. I thought my summoner was doing good DPS as I seamed to be playing it well and had great gear for it, however the damage numbers I pull off my Ninja far surpasses the summoner even after the small nerf in the recent patch.

The main problems I see:

* They removed Thunder - why? This made summoner more interesting and gave us a decent damage boost, without this damage we have lagged behind.
* Ruin costs insane amounts of mana - I seriously found that for longer fights, it would be best to just apply DoTs then just watch the fight unfold rather than spamming Ruin for tiny amounts of damage and then not being able to apply my DoTs again due to mana problems.
* Egi's scale terribly - Egi's weren't great as a freshly levelled 50, they don't scale well with gear either.

Personally, summoner has lost it's charm for me, it started off as looking like an interesting pet class but you soon realize your simply a DoT based caster.

I would seriously suggest SE revamp the Summoner for Heavensward, and while they are at it, might it a proper pet class or get rid of the pets altogether.

[Sunako]

I have ilvl 120 now my SMN and i feel like my damage is almost same than what it was lvl 110. Only accuracy and spellspeed is increased in every step i get more gear. I have 554 accuracy now and 64+ spellspeed. I do not even wanna know how much it will be if i m gonna buy that poetic weapon. It is almost must have that new 125 relic on SMN before t13 weapon.

[RinchanNau]

(Not including BRD as they are DPS/Support and will easily contribute more dps to the raid than any other class in the game)

I'm sorry, but this simply is not true. In our config with MNK, NIN, BRD, BLM I do not contribute enough with utility to compensate for the massive difference in damage dealt. T10? 50 - 80 behind melee. T10? 50 - 100 behind melee (partially because I deal with balancing the two nodes in add phase). T12? 50 - 90 behind melee and BLM (I deal with redfire, but that will only affect maybe 3 GCDs). T13? The one I am most competitive in due to downtime. 20 - 50 behind melee. 5 weeks t13 farm. So it isn't just inexperience. The gap widens the more melee familiarize themselves with these fights.

I'm not going to make a ranty thread about how bard needs a buff, but please don't exclude bard as a DPS job when making whiny 'game isn't balanced, waaaah' threads.

[Minorinz]

I'm not going to make a ranty thread about how bard needs a buff, but please don't exclude bard as a DPS job when making whiny 'game isn't balanced, waaaah' threads.

Bard will always be a required class for progression... whether there is a dps gap or not, every other class is being compared with another..
Also other classes/jobs are always shuffled, bard has always been the one and only class that's been in most statics if not all..

[Gallus]

How I would change SMN:

1 - Food should affect both pet and SMN.
2 - Pet should have the same accuracy cap as the SMN.
3 - Make SMN gear different from THM/BLM gear. Have SMN gear give Det, Crit and Piety instead of Det, Crit and Spell Speed.
4 - Make attribute points affect pet also (currently they don't).

Suddenly, SMN is a consistent class.

[Xyldarran]

Posting to agree entirely on this issue. MSN issues are terrible.

The itemization was like a smack in the face. My raid screamed at me to switch to SMN in SCoB, and now I'm getting "why not give BLM a try for FCoB" all the time.

SMN needs help, desperately.

[Lavieh]

Unfortunately, not posting the entire well thought out thread you posted on Reddit is a disservice. They say they read those other "forums" but not to have it all on the official forums makes it feel like we aren't saying what needs to be said.

My original intent was to post the whole write-up to the forums but I was quickly stricken with a 1000 character limit, I was almost 7000 characters over the limit. I really hope people read what I have to say as well as read all the other comments in the thread.

[HakuroDK]

They're already planning to overhaul SMN in 3.0 with the introduction of Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva-egis.

This is probably just a precursor to that.