White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Cynfael]

The issue I have with Eos is that her additional healing is not appreciated most of the time. Selene's damage increase is indeed not astronomical, but more damage is rarely unappreciated.

Sebazy, I get what you are saying, and I'm not sure I can express this thought with text without sounding belligerent, but I don't wish to be condescended to. I don't actually recall stating that Eos was useless for end-game content; rather, that content is about the only thing you'd consider using her for outside of low-level duties.

When I say "not useful for most content," I mean literally that. I'm not sure how this tangent got started, but I meant exactly what I said. If I hadn't wished to allow for specific applications of Eos' abilities being useful, I would have called her trash and left it at that.

[Sebazy]

Poor Eos collects dust 95% of the time at end-game

And indeed, extra DPS is almost never a bad thing, but don't forget that extra healing is also a boon particularly whilst still learning encounters (I was unlucky enough to spend a rough total of 72+ hours on T13 with a group only for it to steadily chew itself apart and I'm now repeating that learning process with a new group), whilst I'm pretty confident in my own ability on that turn, the WHM I'm with now doesn't have the same luxury of experience as me, so going with EoS rather than Selene not only lightens the load on her, it also allows me a little more wiggle room to make up the DPS deficit myself or cover mistakes that invariably happen. Those numbers I'm pulling aren't just for show, they are there to give us our best chance at getting into phase 3 as cleanly and consistently as possible.

As for sounding condescending, I'm honestly not sure how else I can put it quite frankly. You are talking about content you haven't yet experienced. T13 is a healer check like nothing else I've seen in this game yet, done T11? Take that feeling of the tanks getting pummelled and take out all the non damaging fluff in between those big hits and cleaves and you're getting there, when we first hit the turn with little 120+ gear on hand, it was literally a case of timing every last heal to within 0.5 of a second or so, if I was early or late, the tank died, no ifs, no buts. Whilst it's easier now with the additional gear my group has, I'm still prioritising keeping everyone alive rather than pushing the DPS.

Once we are at the point where we get a clean transition to phase 4 with the pain still up then I'll weigh up Selene.

And I thought calling her useless for only "95%" of content was being generous.

So in closing. Eos is arguably the stronger choice in low level content, Selene definitely takes centre stage for 'mid-game' farm content where you simply want to burn through trivial fluff as fast as possible, however, she becomes entirely viable again in the proper end game (aka FCOB as of now), it'd take a pretty stalwart Selene fan to not bring EoS out for the Bennu phase on T12! Once 2.5 hits and groups are close to BiS then chances are Selene will be ruling the roost again. Obviously, that's my personal opinion rather than words of fact and I appreciate that!

[Cynfael]

Thank you for the response. I still maintain that my statement is true unless you consider T13 the entirety of end-game content.

I hadn't anticipated needing to elaborate on my original statement because I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed that my meaning would be clear. Just because there are specific phases in which you might swap to Eos or fights where you might default to Eos while learning/gearing doesn't mean that she isn't unnecessary for the rest of the time. That was my point from the beginning and why I was careful not to call her out as being a total loss.

I personally find Eos more fun to use than Selene, but the additional buffer becomes unnecessary in most fights once you know the mechanics and are sufficiently geared. Maybe T12 and 13 are the exception?

[Sebazy]

Before I go into this, I assume you're referring to FCOB Turn 4 (Turn 13). Could you specify the exact timing? When you mention "Before mega flare", I'm understanding that as either: After Rage or right before Mega flare.

I missed this sorry =(

For phase 2 I cast medica II to land during Bahamut's MegaFlare cast. Whilst this is in itself inefficient, it serves two purposes. First up, it gives me an extra GCD to heal the MT or potentially try to top a MegaFlare marker that may have got clipped by someone else. Secondly, allows me more room to ensure I can land a Medica 1 between the MegaFlare marker explosion and the tower detonating, this almost entirely eradicates the risk of people dieing when the phase 2 tower pops under the MegaFlare markers. Finally, I can usually top people up for Rage with a second Medica 1 rather than needing a Cure III stack. It's not quite the most efficient method of healing this point of the encounter, but it's the safest I've managed to find as WHM.

http://www.hitbox.tv/video/333269 - 4:15 shows it in action the clearest, although I had to Cure III ahead of both rage's on that recording that's generally not the case.

I do almost the same as SCH, trying to catch as many people with Succor as I can during the last set of orbs, leading in with a Rouse/WD and timing that second succor to land before the tower.

[Zedd702]

Wow! I'm literally shocked that someone stitched this thread back together and revived it by shocking it with several thousand bolts of lightning...

Seriously though, WHM is not really lacking per se, but I think the only thing it could use is a slight buff to SoS and that's just about it IMO.

WHM = potent burst healer
SCH = preventative healer

The two complement each other VERY well in 8 man parties. Succor gives time for Regenerative abilities to become more noticeable and less taxing on WHM MP, when the two work in tandem. When I play SCH I usually will tell the WHM I will get the first swiftcast Rez, since my MP management is a bit more loose than WHM and that the WHM can handle healing mechanics like tumult while I perform rez, Lustrate target and protect the team with a barrier for WHM to heal effectively.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but they REALLY shine together!

[ShadeUK]

Both healing classes have their strengths and weakness's in any well constructed raid team they would want 1 of each to benefit from each of their strengths. SCH cant heal as much as a WHM, WHM cant mitigate as much as a SCH.

I play both WHM/SCH depending what i prefer or is needed, both are great in their own way since both styles are different and both have different skills to bring to the fight. Having 1 of each in any team is the best option you can go for in any content imo. Also sure its nice to add a little dps out during a fight as a healer but your in the fight to heal not dps. Ive seen countless wipes because healers spend too much time doing dps and not enough healing.

This isnt bias in any way btw but i will say this, Stoneskin to me is 1 of the best skills in this game in any fight. Its very underestimated.

But like whats been said, any decent raid team will use a SCH AND a WHM, there is nothing better in content than having both.

And no ive not reached FCOB yet (doing SCOB) i hope to at somepoint but thats just what my experience has been thus far.

[KEyska]

I play both as does (I'm sure) a large chunk of the player base.
I don't think it should be about one being better then the other. They were designed to compliment each other...and do
(This will only be a viable topic when we know more about the new healer; how are they going to fit it in between the two current ones as to not force one into retirement... Or could be broken itself I guess.
It's really coming down to the fact in a (non pug) situation or over geared group that SHC can afford to push a lil more dps... Which imo is so stupid to argue which class is completely better then the other in ONE lil area lol. That's just Epeening just like Dps and tanks do... (I mean this was brought up as an "overall" conversation..) And in any game when players are capping out special perks of a class can be found; a SCH for example getting room to dps, solo heal, or switch their healing summons. A WHM can solo it too lol.

[KEyska]

Cont...
WHM can just as easy get their regens/med up right before the dmg comes in if they don't have a SCH to get through. Ie Both can be preemptive in healing if need be. SCH's of coarse is baked in.
As many above said they both have disadvantage and strengths. I however do not see it that way; its obvious they were designed to compliment each other. And both will do fine in groups with another of the same. To me its more like they just have their unique perks (not disadvantage.)

When did they add a character limit? *sigh SE...

[Sebazy]

[rawker]

Had a few runs off ST, the other day, as a WHM with another WHM and we didn't have any issue/s keeping our party healthy.

Having played both SCH and WHM, I cannot really say that WHM is lacking. It has all the tools I need. I mean, if I want bigger heals, I pop DS. Medica II is very handy when I want to apply HoT to the entire party which I can only do not that often as SCH. Not to mention that the regeneration it gives stacks with Regen so more HoT. I may have come into the point where MP becomes an issue but it's just a reminder for me to be more mindful of my healing. It's teaching me to use the right healing spell at the right moment to which SCH are very forgiving. I feel more in control when I play WHM mainly due to the fact that it has 3 AoE heals which I can use whenever I wanted to. SCH, OTOH, may lack of a more potent AoE healing but acts as additional HP on top of each party member's max HP.

What needs fixing is the character limit in the forums.