This guy gets it Terms and Services

[NyarukoW]

...Anyone who does PvP will probably disagree.
...

Your 90K issues are not 100% on SE. Networking problems run the gamut and your ISP, the CO/co-location switches/routers, and other telecom/service providers are all implicated here. For the most part people are not 90K-ing all the time, otherwise you'd see endless posts and thread about it like when DDOS, which are also 100% not SE's fault, happen and the forums fill up with posts about lobby errors and such.

As for housing, there is no problem with housing. All the new wards are like less than 30% utilization, means lots of empty lots.

And PvP has been improved with frontlines replacing the win-trading wolf's den. SE never promised open-world PvP, and on the whole FFXIV is not a PvP game.

[Bunsen]

Youre talking like im getting something for free, ive spent ~200euro on this game already but somehow that wasnt square charging me for their product? is it so unreasonable to not want pay extra for little things which would have been included into the game anyways?

Im really having trouble relating to the cash shop defenders who seem to be ok with a company milking them for more cash after having already committed so much to their product. How doesnt this double dipping feel wrong to you? Really, people are entitled to their own opinions, its ok, i just dont understand you at all.

I am a consumer who understands what I am purchasing/subscribing. To correct myself, nothing is ever "FREE".. so should have said, at no additional cost.

Not sure in EU.. but speaking for NA.. Why is it that when you go to the movies, your ticket doesn't include popcorn, large drink and some Milk Duds? Why is it when you subscribe to cable TV it doesn't include HBO/Showtime? Because they are "optional" and additional revenue for businesses. Do people complain? Of course!! I'm just playing devil's advocate... I can see "why" a business would make these decisions.

There are many of these comparisons.. It isn't double dipping if you are choosing to purchase "additional" items (which has no impact to anyone's ability to progress in the game they are subscribing for)

[Nalien]

snip

In this game I quite literally never suffer from 90ks, not since the initial rush at launch. It is an issue that is solely faced in Frontlines and people are 90king all the time there. Literally every single match, I watch at least one person drop out due to a 90k, sometimes quite a lot (the other day all but 2 of my party 90k'd for a few seconds, bye-bye LB, bye-bye winning node, bye-bye winning in general, all because of 90k), and that's just on my team. As far as I can tell, it is an issue with Frontlines, no where else in the game do I see anything remotely similar to this.

@Housing. I'm willing to bet that all the empty lots are medium to large plots, with all the small lots being sold out. Individuals like myself who are mad enough for buy a mansion for their (small) Free Company and a medium sized house for themselves are perfectly fine. Individuals who have a couple million Gil and would like a small house almost exclusively for the garden/stable, aren't.

[zar]

This guy nailed that he likes Final Fantasy so much therefore it's his divine duty to defend it and the company and to shun everyone who doesn't like it? That's nice.

Referencing the ToS makes you a white knight? lol @ this post

Soon this forum will call you a white knight for simply playing the game

[Koenignovi]

I am a consumer who understands what I am purchasing/subscribing. To correct myself, nothing is ever "FREE".. so should have said, at no additional cost.

Not sure in EU.. but speaking for NA.. Why is it that when you go to the movies, your ticket doesn't include popcorn, large drink and some Milk Duds? Why is it when you subscribe to cable TV it doesn't include HBO/Showtime? Because they are "optional" and additional revenue for businesses. Do people complain? Of course!! I'm just playing devil's advocate... I can see "why" a business would make these decisions.

There are many of these comparisons.. It isn't double dipping if you are choosing to purchase "additional" items (which has no impact to anyone's ability to progress in the game they are subscribing for)

This is an excellent example of why SE added a cash shop, like many other MMOs have before it. Props to you Bunsen and +1!

[Roris]

Referencing the ToS makes you a white knight? lol @ this post

Soon this forum will call you a white knight for simply playing the game

Referencing something to defend another, yes. Or perhaps it's the good old "maybe if I go against the opposition and try hard to act cool I'll look morally superior than those haters, look at how great I am for liking a bad thing they don't"

[melflomil]

The thread was initially about; "Hey people complaining about the cash shop! Read the ToS, your argument is invalid!", which is simply not true.

Yes. SE holds the right to introduce a cash shop. They also hold the right to make it so you can only be in Heavensward zones for 30 minutes a day, and put potions to extend that duration another 30 minutes for 10$ a piece on the cash shop.

This is about feedback. No where in the ToS does it say we are not allowed to provide feedback, in fact these forums exist explicitly to give us a place to leave out feedback. People are providing feedback about how they dislike the idea of a cash shop, others are apathetic and arguing for some reason. People are welcome to provide feedback saying they dislike the cash shop, even if they agreed to the possibility in the ToS. People are also welcome to provide feedback saying they like the cash shop, though I'm not seeing any. What I really don't get is the apathetic individuals in the middle who don't care about the cash shop, but do care about telling people who don't like the cash shop to shut up. They are not providing feedback, they're just telling people to shut up when if anyone should, it's themselves that should.



And that's up to the developers, not random consumers on the forums who don't care one way or the other. All such people are doing is muddling feedback. When a thread gets made along the lines of "I don't like the cash shop", the apathetic descend and reply "I don't care, shut up". The impression that then gives is that there are individuals who want to see the cash shop gone, and individuals who want it to remain, when in truth we have individuals who want it gone and individuals who simply don't care, but are responding to topics about something they don't care about anyway.

SE already said they wont introduce items that will change the Core game aka gives others advantages So your second paragraph is invalid.

There is nothing wrong with feedback give SE all the feedback you want but when people are acting like brats because they think the are "entitled" to something that's when consumers cross the line. You are only entitled to something if SE screws you over. Example, they charge your card three times for one month subscription. Damn right I'll be in SE's ass asking for my money back and three months free for their error.

This guy nailed that he likes Final Fantasy so much therefore it's his divine duty to defend it and the company and to shun everyone who doesn't like it? That's nice.

FYI I'm not defending anyone. I hate what SE is doing with the New tomb raider. Xbox Exclusive? That already has them close to my shit list. People just need to get over the fact that any "Extras" in this game now or that will be introduce later should already be included. As long it doesn't effect the core of the game I see nothing wrong with it.

It's like buying Crest tooth. If you want dazzling teeth go buy Crest whitening advance brand but don't say i already pay for tooth paste. It already should whiten my teeth because that's what tooth paste does. WRONG!!!!

[Xhominid]

Unethical is the wrong word, I'm sure.

The cash shop, in a pay to play game at least, is blatantly anti-consumer. Any consumer with two braincells to rub together should be against it for the same reason trash like Final Fantasy: All the Bravest gets SE such a bad reputation.

1. Anti-consumer? You do realize how DUMB something like that is right to used in such a way without realizing what the hell consumer rights IS right? The consumer has a right to buy whatever they want, get a refund on whatever they want and get the full package and what they asked for. And we did, it's called the game disk and the base game because with this level of logic, Expansions of all kinds that we have to pay for is ALSO Anti-Consumer...but waiting for illogical rebuttal in 5,4,3...

2. I don't you've SEEN how bad All The Bravest is to even COMPARE it to A Realm Reborn, so I'll pretend to cut you some slack and tell you how bad that game truly is:
1. You had to pay for Phoenix Downs, otherwise gotta wait virtually one hour for you party members to arrive.
2. Gotta pay cash to even get different stages and characters, who need I remind you is random as hell similar to Gatchapon.
3. Then there's DLC on top of that, equalling $50 bucks for the entire experience.

This isn't no All The Bravest, those comparisons die at the start. But what can I expect from those with the ridiculous "With Us or Against Us, but I'm just saying what's wrong, don't kill my opinion bro" level of pretentiousness that keeps permeating over and over again from the other side?

[Kerwin]

This needed its own thread? lol

[Koenignovi]