So the zodiac upgrades... (kind of ranty post)

[SekhmetM]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Casual doesn't mean easy. It just means you don't play the game as often as hardcore players.

[NorthernLadMSP]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Whatever you say. I know plenty of raiders doing FCOB that wouldn't touch the insane relic quest with a ten foot pole.

[Andevom]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Give casual players enough time, they can get through all the coils. So yeah, it being time consuming kinda pulls it away from being casual friendly.

[Xine]

Personally don't see how anyone is forced to do anything. I'm with you in the fact that I don't have a static and mine disbanded before they cleared t9 (they couldn't even handle t7, I cleared t7 and t8 without them in PUGs), so I don't have AIM or Dreadwyrm weapons as an option, Zodiac/Relic is my only option if I want a better weapon. Before anyone makes a mention of Shiva EX being easier/faster, I have a Nexus with Crit/Det maxed already. But I don't see how ANY content in this game is forced on anyone, literally everything in this game, from lv1 to lv50 and beyond, is optional. You can pay for the subscription, and login, do nothing, and thats your gaming experience. No one is ever forced to do anything in this game, people need to stop thinking someone is holding a loaded gun to the back of their heads saying "do this or I'm going to pull the trigger" because this is not happening.... "Only option" does not = "Forced".

[Fated]

Whatever you say. I know plenty of raiders doing FCOB that wouldn't touch the insane relic quest with a ten foot pole.

^ Sums it up pretty well and I'm one of them. It's almost like a little slice of old school Korean MMORPGs and FFXI rolled together in one.

[Prototype909]

Whatever you say. I know plenty of raiders doing FCOB that wouldn't touch the insane relic quest with a ten foot pole.

Why would they, if they can clear Coil they don't need to waste time pursuing Relic - that's the entire point. If you aren't doing Coil you probably have a lot of free time assuming you are still playing the game often, that's why it's a grind. You're not sinking X amount of hours into learning/clearing content, you're sinking X amount of hours into facerolling through lesser content and hoping for RNG to work out. It's a fair trade.

[Fynlar]

This is not true. I'm casual, taking my time working on t10, and these relic quests scare the shit out of me. Any1 doing these relic quests are in my eyes hardcore as it gets.

The ff14 community definition of hardcore confuses me a lot....

I can see why it confuses you, because you don't seem to understand that "casual" and "3rd coil" don't really belong in the same sentence. Anyone making any sort of headway into 3rd coil (and not just buying/leeching a win or whatever) is no casual player in my book.

For me personally, nothing about this quest feels particularly bad, whereas even 2nd coil is scary as shit for me, let alone 3rd. Yes, it's a lot of work. But not one aspect of it thus far has been particularly difficult, which is what makes it casual-friendly.

[Eardstapa]

They're easy to get. Time consuming, yes. Difficult? No. Therefore, they are casual weapons.

Let's use your logic in another argument. Final coil weapons are easy to get. Difficult? Only to find a competent static. Time consuming? Sure. Therefore, they are just as casual. And if we go to the lodestone bull, remember, some of us are not fortunate enough to join statics due to work.

[Tupsi]

^ Sums it up pretty well and I'm one of them. It's almost like a little slice of old school Korean MMORPGs and FFXI rolled together in one.

Incorrect - In XI I at least benefited from working on Relic/Mythic/Empyrean because the content you had to do for it actually progressed your character in the same sitting - In XIV, I gain -zero- benefit from spamming Fates, low level dungeons, waiting 2-5 hour+ Fate spawns that's no different from your basic FATE and then spamming maps and more dungeons that serve no purpose to my progression for a piece of alexandrite. At least with XI Relic, I did Dynamis and gained gear that's useful (at the time) and had the option of selling currency I didn't need and even earned a refund to pass off to a friend or make 20-30mil+. With Mythics I gained Nyzul/Einherjar gear and ZNM gear. With Empyrean I gained my much used Empyrean Armor sets until Adoulin released.

With XIV...yeah it's more Korean style than anything.

[Eardstapa]

Snipped the rest, sorry Tupsi. With XIV...yeah it's more Korean style than anything.

This right here is the sad, unfortunate truth. Of course, I am betting someone will argue that you're gaining Poetics for running dungeons! ... Not really the same thing. XI relics were fun, despite lockouts in certain content for a while.