Savage Coil - Should it be level synced?

[Ellatrix]

Why are people who never touched savage (and some who didn't even clear T9 before echo... ), talking about savage balance? This isn't the nerfed storymode SCoB, the mechanics are preserved and are still deadly.

The groups that challenge this, can choose to simply wear 2.3 gear if they want to do it with the gear it was tuned at. Or, they can choose to use the new gear to see how much stronger they have become. And if more people start doing it because they feel they have a better chance of success now with more gear, that's a good thing.

Also, another reason ilvl sync is a horrible idea is they already messed it up for the dungeons - i110 with no materia. i90 crafted was pretty important for clearing savage, as well as i115 weapons.

[Velox]

Why are people who never touched savage (and some who didn't even clear T9 before echo... ), talking about savage balance?

The groups that challenge this, can choose to simply wear 2.3 gear if they want to do it with the gear it was tuned at. Or, they can choose to use the new gear to see how much stronger they have become.

There are just so many things wrong with this post.

[Ellatrix]

There are just so many things wrong with this post.

No everything in my post is correct, and is written by someone who has cleared Savage turns. You didn't clear T5 until echo, you didn't clear T9 until echo, so Savage balance isn't something that is ever going to affect you.

It's fine the way it is now, and if having more gear gets more people to attempt it, that is nothing but a good thing, because then it justifies the development time spent on it and maybe they will add some for Coil 1. I'm going to be very disappointed if there's no Savage mode for Coil 3 added in 2.5, since I've already had all of Coil 3 on farm for a month now.

[Velox]

snip

Implying people don't turn echo off in order to deal with a fight properly
Implying people who don't do savage now won't do it in the future when they have the time, thus being affected by any future balances (if any)

[aerolol]

Implying people don't turn echo off in order to deal with a fight properly
Implying people who don't do savage now won't do it in the future when they have the time, thus being affected by any future balances (if any)

There are just so many things wrong with this post.

[Velo_Vandore]

No I haven't even completed T7 even with echo. Right now, I'm in a casual FC, and play with my friend and girlfriend. The FC raid between 8-9:30 each evening IF we have enough players on. There's no static as such - for locked content (if we are up to it) we rotate playing into the group each week, and if those players aren't all on, we do something else, like a primal or ST. I work and I have kids, so it's the way I prefer to play right now. I'm not saying that the others in my FC are less skilled or holding me back, but simply that we don't dedicate much time at all to raiding in comparison to hardcore FC's, and that the group being non-static is a major obstacle to progression too.

That said, I do love hyper difficult challenges in games, and in single player games where I can play at my own pace, I'll dig into the harder extra content. Whether I'm capable of completing a challenge like Savage CoB neither you nor I can say. In future I might like to be part of a more serious static group and be able to come back and see what I missed from Savage CoB. If I'm honest, I think it's unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever, but it's still something I would really desire (just not enough to ditch my friends and out of game commitments for).

I can accept that my opinion isn't as informed as yours might be, but I think you're being narrow minded to exclude anyone from the conversation who's not actually experienced Savage yet. Also, congrats on the titles (sincerely), but instead of throwing your weight around why not put your energy into providing a better argument for allowing Savage CoB to become easier and easier each patch. I'm not convinced that every player who's completed Savage CoB would share your sentiment, or even that the opinions of those players is necessarily the most important if they already got what they want.

[Aurelinaus]

No I haven't even completed T7 even with echo. Right now, I'm in a casual FC, and play with my friend and girlfriend. The FC raid between 8-9:30 each evening IF we have enough players on. There's no static as such - for locked content (if we are up to it) we rotate playing into the group each week, and if those players aren't all on, we do something else, like a primal or ST. I work and I have kids, so it's the way I prefer to play right now. I'm not saying that the others in my FC are less skilled or holding me back, but simply that we don't dedicate much time at all to raiding in comparison to hardcore FC's, and that the group being non-static is a major obstacle to progression too.

That said, I do love hyper difficult challenges in games, and in single player games where I can play at my own pace, I'll dig into the harder extra content. Whether I'm capable of completing a challenge like Savage CoB neither you nor I can say. In future I might like to be part of a more serious static group and be able to come back and see what I missed from Savage CoB. If I'm honest, I think it's unlikely to happen any time soon, if ever, but it's still something I would really desire (just not enough to ditch my friends and out of game commitments for).

I can accept that my opinion isn't as informed as yours might be, but I think you're being narrow minded to exclude anyone from the conversation who's not actually experienced Savage yet. Also, congrats on the titles (sincerely), but instead of throwing your weight around why not put your energy into providing a better argument for allowing Savage CoB to become easier and easier each patch. I'm not convinced that every player who's completed Savage CoB would share your sentiment, or even that the opinions of those players is necessarily the most important if they already got what they want.

When Scob was getting it's teeth ripped out the argument of you casuals in general was "If you want a challenge go to savage where you belong. gtfo you hardcore elitists"

Cheesing it with gear pretty much defeats the purpose of making it difficult in the first place.

[Velo_Vandore]

Sensing a little unnecessary spite, that I don't think this topic needs :/ People who have not touched savage coil will be affected because they will lose the opportunity to experience the challenge.

The groups that challenge this, can choose to simply wear 2.3 gear if they want to do it with the gear it was tuned at.

They won't easily find a group willing to do so. Also, isn't there a title awarded for completion of savage coil? The significance and allure of that title will be watered down, which is unfair both to those who beat the content with lesser gear, and to those who don't have the group or play time to achieve the title while it's still hot.

And if more people start doing it because they feel they have a better chance of success now with more gear, that's a good thing.

Why? You mean because players are running out of content after normal coil, but not enticed to keep subbing while the next challenge is "out of reach"? I imagine that's a really small percentage of players. The game can cope without those subs, and those players will surely be back each content patch.

Also, another reason ilvl sync is a horrible idea is they already messed it up for the dungeons - i110 with no materia. i90 crafted was pretty important for clearing savage, as well as i115 weapons.

Improvements would be welcome to fix those level sync issues, but I don't see how level sync would be more terrible that no level sync. The challenge would still be preserved better with iffy level sync than with no level sync at all.

There are players who enjoy a challenge and are capable of meeting one, but that can't or don't want to be racing against the clock. I understand the sense in nerfing content, but I was hoping savage modes could live outside of the standard content recycling pattern. It's tiresome to keep hearing:

Noob: "Yes! We just cleared Turn X!"

Snob: "It's a joke since the patch, IMO"

Savage coil could live outside of this, and always be a respected achievement, even in several years time.

[Ellatrix]

Your post is an extremely accurate case study as to why someone who hasn't set foot in savage coil (have you even done normal coil without echo?) shouldn't be talking about savage balance.

I'm the one with the titles, and I think it would be a good thing for more players to get them. Because they will become better players by making it through the fight.

[Numenor1379]

Your post is an extremely accurate case study as to why someone who hasn't set foot in savage coil (have you even done normal coil without echo?) shouldn't be talking about savage balance.

I'm the one with the titles, and I think it would be a good thing for more players to get them. Because they will become better players by making it through the fight.

So I'm confused... as you're someone with those Savage Titles, WHY is it a good thing that they will become easier to get over time? Why would you want people to be able to out-gear this type of challenge? Putting an iLvl Sync in for the max level of gear at the time Savage was introduced seems a no-brainer for me (i110 or i90 penta-melded). That way future people who clear the content won't have the advantage of greater heals, higher defensive levels, higher damage output, than those who cleared it originally. Sure OHKs should still be OHKs in the future, and they will need to learn the mechanics... but why allow them the advantages better gear gives in the first place?

There's no "balance" in what you're advocating, only gradual easement of difficulty through higher gear levels.