White Mage vs Scholar - Why is White Mage lacking?

[Minorinz]

This is why you don't fail to manage your stacks properly and don't stop spamming your Embrace keybind.

I do understand what you're getting it, but I think you might be overstating the problem. The fairy may not be 100% responsive in the way that the player character is, but it's also not wildly ADHD and prone to running around doing nothing even if you fail to control it to the best of your ability. Also don't forget to factor in the decent probability of Adlo crits during a "burst" healing effort and the fact that the fairy can and will crit its heals on top of that.

SCH has plenty of control if you're doing it right. Paying attention to the effect of your heals, your shields, and the fairy's heals and adjusting on the fly is just how its done. I don't feel remotely uncontrolled as either SCH or WHM.

WHM is not any more controlled, but it is more "predictable" in the sense that you can sit there and heal in large chunks, even if almost entirely dependent on your character's GCD, expecting more or less the same result over time. The main challenge with this chunk healing aside from being largely GCD-bound is that A) any overheal is useless since it's pure HP; B) as you noted, MP will not last; and C) WHM healing aggro is serious business since none of its healing power is diverted to shields or supplemented by a pet.

WHM is plenty powerful and undeniably more efficient at raid healing, but it doesn't stack up to SCH's single-target healing potential in any practical way.

Ofc most of your points are valid, but you also do understand that in most fights- party members are taking avoidable damage (or just having some terrible RNG with damage crits/lag/etc) and as their scholar you will have to act on an impulse in order to save them and hence stacks being lost anyway, based on experience it's not due to poor planning but recovery and survivability is a scholar's thing. There is no such thing as a perfect run being handed out. This solely separates a great scholar from a good one. The reason why WHM is powerful and more controlled in a sense is because they are anticipating the damage and pre-cast through it to recover while scholar is acting on impulse after seeing the damage already being done. This also includes the pet bot that helps healing other targets as well. Ofc, Adlo is needed to mitigate damage beforehand but it's something a scholar is simply not going to spam unless it's needed under consistent heavy damage. Fairy delay is absolute and whether it's moving or not, when activating buffs and what not there will be some minimum delay in execution unless you switch pet stances over and over. One more thing about WHM is that they are very difficult to master just because you should know the fight by heart and the damage sequence to know when to NOT heal, most scholars only need to know when their stacks are most critical and save them up as well as when they should be able to squeeze dps, nonetheless SCH takes more accountability than a WHM incase of some healing failure on the tank even during an auto attack but the WHM will take full responsibility for not being able heal the raid on a full range of AOE damage.

[Artiste]

I didn't know we where lacking of WHM.

[Mister-Wonderful]

A lotta people trashing the OP, who is just voicing his concerns/desires. One to three word responses are not constructive and deter from the OP's message.



Your contribution to the discussion, bottles my mind.

[Cynfael]

...as their scholar you will have to act on an impulse in order to save them and hence stacks being lost anyway, based on experience it's not due to poor planning but recovery and survivability is a scholar's thing. There is no such thing as a perfect run being handed out. This solely separates a great scholar from a good one. The reason why WHM is powerful and more controlled in a sense is because they are anticipating the damage and pre-cast through it to recover while scholar is acting on impulse after seeing the damage already being done...

SCH and WHM are equally accountable for anticipating the flow of a fight; the only distinction is that WHM is punished more severely for failing to think ahead since they have less room for slop with their GCDs. Impulse healing is the exception, not the rule.

Also, if party members are consistently taking avoidable damage, the group is A) learning content; B) a casual DF/PF group; or C) drunk. E.g. I rarely find myself spending stacks to clutch heal except when one or more party members have no idea what they're doing, and that's typically a situation like ST where half the raid can take dirt nap while the competent half cleans up.

Besides, in any solo-healing situation where other players in the raid are eating large, avoidable hits at the same time that the tank is taking spike damage, the WHM will have more serious problems than the SCH's choice of blowing a stack on Lustrate for DPS to cover derps; while the SCH might be pressured to spend stacks and to spam Embrace <mo> on a non-tank, the WHM will still need to respect their GCD aside from blowing Benediction. This is why I find solo healing a solo tank in T7 much simpler as SCH since it's easier to cover DPS' mistakes while maintaining necessary heals on the tank.

Outside of solo healing, Lustrates on the raid are even less necessary since you have a healing partner, and if it's a WHM, they are probably healing raid damage quickly and efficiently enough that you don't need to worry much.

[Minorinz]

SCH and WHM are equally accountable for anticipating the flow of a fight; the only distinction is that WHM is punished more severely for failing to think ahead since they have less room for slop with their GCDs. Impulse healing is the exception, not the rule.

Also, if party members are consistently taking avoidable damage, the group is A) learning content; B) a casual DF/PF group; or C) drunk. E.g. I rarely find myself spending stacks to clutch heal except when one or more party members have no idea what they're doing, and that's typically a situation like ST where half the raid can take dirt nap while the competent half cleans up.

Besides, in any solo-healing situation where other players in the raid are eating large, avoidable hits at the same time that the tank is taking spike damage, the WHM will have more serious problems than the SCH's choice of blowing a stack on Lustrate for DPS to cover derps; while the SCH might be pressured to spend stacks and to spam Embrace <mo> on a non-tank, the WHM will still need to respect their GCD aside from blowing Benediction. This is why I find solo healing a solo tank in T7 much simpler as SCH since it's easier to cover DPS' mistakes while maintaining necessary heals on the tank.

Outside of solo healing, Lustrates on the raid are even less necessary since you have a healing partner, and if it's a WHM, they are probably healing raid damage quickly and efficiently enough that you don't need to worry much.

I will have to disagree there, WHM have more of an impact in terms on performance in learning fight mechanics than a scholar simply because most of the time the scholar is dpsing and the whm is solo healing aka T9/T8 and most endgame raid content- and if the fight is heavy on movement the WHM will have to know every mechanic to be able to position and heal, meaning they need to know it before it takes place to move, precast and so on, they cannot pop some instant heal other than benediction which makes complete sense. Learning fight patterns is always more forgiving and easier on a scholar, this is a given. Also, it is not about being consistent with taking heavy damage, if the fight is healing intensive then 1 stack can pretty much wipe the raid aka t13 with lower tier gear or even with the tier gear required for that turn. Ofc less intensive healing content is not even relevant in a sense since most people are over geared for it at this point, including dungeons and most content of past patches.

[Slib]

@OP: I appreciate your comments but would ask you to consider that the WHM is more of a "straight up" healer; a walking bandage. While SCH is more of a first aid kit; there's more in there than band-aids and neosporin.

Cute names, I agree tho.


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I like how this thread is still going tho...and since I last checked I saw yet another Scholar solo heal video of Shiva EX. While, I'm sure White Mage could pull that off, there were only four players, 2 blm, pld (i think) and a scholar. Go figure Scholar was the one to solo heal it, just like in the first turn 9 solo heal that I've heard of.

Anyway, noone here has convinced me that White Mage is fine. I see some people talking about WHM could use a more scaling Shroud of Saints. This would be great to see, and a step up in the right direction.

[Luthvian]

Anyway, noone here has convinced me that White Mage is fine. I see some people talking about WHM could use a more scaling Shroud of Saints. This would be great to see, and a step up in the right direction.

That's because you have already closed your mind to the fact that WHMs are fine. You aren't looking for a discussion, you just want a platform to spew your opinion that you think that SCH is better, which plenty of people have posted otherwise to disagree with you. I would be ashamed to raid in a team with you. My SCH and I work synergistically together, with the understanding that we bring different skills to the table that help our team progress. I heal harder so that he can use selene to improve our dps, who can in turn kill a boss faster so that there is less stress on the tanks and heals.

[Slib]

That's because you have already closed your mind to the fact that WHMs are fine.

I haven't closed my mind to the fact that WHM lack compared to Scholar. That's what this was about. I just gave up repeating myself over and over. No reason to repeat myself when people can just reread what I said previously.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

I haven't closed my mind to the fact that WHM lack compared to Scholar. That's what this was about. I just gave up repeating myself over and over. No reason to repeat myself when people can just reread what I said previously.

You also repeatedly contradicted your own statement about your mindset by constantly countering other arguments with a "yes, I agree BUT or HOWEVER" context. Whoever's not literally reading whatever is being written can read between the lines there's some passive-aggressive scholar>white mage mindset behind your posts. For starters: Look at the title and what you're even writing yourself about white mages in what I just quoted

[Kyomih]

SCH and WHM are equally accountable for anticipating the flow of a fight; the only distinction is that WHM is punished more severely for failing to think ahead since they have less room for slop with their GCDs. Impulse healing is the exception, not the rule.

Also, if party members are consistently taking avoidable damage, the group is A) learning content; B) a casual DF/PF group; or C) drunk. E.g. I rarely find myself spending stacks to clutch heal except when one or more party members have no idea what they're doing, and that's typically a situation like ST where half the raid can take dirt nap while the competent half cleans up.

Besides, in any solo-healing situation where other players in the raid are eating large, avoidable hits at the same time that the tank is taking spike damage, the WHM will have more serious problems than the SCH's choice of blowing a stack on Lustrate for DPS to cover derps; while the SCH might be pressured to spend stacks and to spam Embrace <mo> on a non-tank, the WHM will still need to respect their GCD aside from blowing Benediction. This is why I find solo healing a solo tank in T7 much simpler as SCH since it's easier to cover DPS' mistakes while maintaining necessary heals on the tank.

Outside of solo healing, Lustrates on the raid are even less necessary since you have a healing partner, and if it's a WHM, they are probably healing raid damage quickly and efficiently enough that you don't need to worry much.

I don't mean to be rude but I couldn't disagree with you more and I am really surprised you would say that as as SCH. You find solo healing easier because SCH is a mitigation healer and doesn't have to re-actively heal like a WHM. Not to mention, if you are solo-healing content it means you are most likely over-geared for it to start with which in turn, again, makes a mitigation healer much more useful. Unless you fall behind but that's exactly why it's much more important for a SCH to anticipate the fight. Sure, they better precast some of those long heals but that doesn't mean you need to know the fight. On the contrary, you can basically spam Cure II if you want and just interrupt whenever it's not needed. Whereas, good luck with not having Sacred Soil or Succor Fay Illumination up BEFORE something big hits.

On the the other hand - solo healing a solo tank for a SCH is of course easier - we are much better at solo healing a tank then a WHM.

With that said, I can't believe people are still fighting over which class is more OP or UP..Both healer classes get the job done and have great synergy together (outside of a few encounters that might favor one or the other).

Unless I am way overgeared for an encounter I am VERY happy that my WHM partner is covering the AoE and big heals.