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  1. #301
    Player
    Orlandeu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    196
    Character
    Reis Heiral
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    Right there, for exemple.
    It's not a demand, it's simply an answer to your previous question.
    (0)

  2. #302
    Player
    hallena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    509
    Character
    Fara Venator
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandeu View Post
    It's not a demand, it's simply an answer to your previous question.
    In both case that person agree melee should outdps ranged for reasons that stoped being relevant in 2.2.
    (1)

  3. #303
    Player
    Dervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,537
    Character
    Dervy Yakimi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    Right there, for exemple.
    And then I shall quote what I said:

    If Bards were on-par with NIN/Monk, everyone would go back to x3 Bard, x1 SMN/BLM.
    (0)

  4. #304
    Player
    hallena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    509
    Character
    Fara Venator
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Dervy View Post
    And then I shall quote what I said:
    Bard is a special case because SE don't want to answer if they are a dps or support class.
    (0)

  5. #305
    Player
    Orlandeu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    196
    Character
    Reis Heiral
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    Bard is a special case because SE don't want to answer if they are a dps or support class.
    So we have to NOT include Bards when it comes to comparing all the classes? I thought I remember you saying:

    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    When we talk about balance, overpowered, underpowered class. Don't compare yourself to the best dps of them all while ignoring other classes or else blm, smn, bard also need buff
    (0)

  6. #306
    Player
    Tilgung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    323
    Character
    Raein Tilgung
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 60
    There is no "support" role in XIV. BRD is a DPS with a shit ton of utility and nearly 100% up time in every single fight this game offers.
    (0)

  7. #307
    Player
    hallena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    509
    Character
    Fara Venator
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandeu View Post
    So we have to NOT include Bards when it comes to comparing all the classes? I thought I remember you saying:
    If SE consider bard as a dps then yes they should get a buff aswell as making adjustment(spelling) to songs to avoid stacking bards.

    If SE consider bard as a support class then they should deal lower dps than others

    In both case if your utility affect your raid dps to a point where its reduced by 15-20%, Then monk and nin should be dead last with bard because they bringst utility no other class can bring. unlike summoner with res and blm with virus
    (0)
    Last edited by hallena; 12-07-2014 at 11:04 AM.

  8. #308
    Player
    Dervy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,537
    Character
    Dervy Yakimi
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    If SE consider bard as a dps then yes they should get a buff aswell as making adjustment(spelling) to songs to avoid stacking bards.

    If SE consider bard as a support class then they should deal lower dps than others

    In both case if your utility affect your raid dps to a point where its reduced by 15-20%, Then monk and nin should be dead last with bard because they bringst utility no other class can bring. unlike summoner with res and blm with virus
    Try do a raid without songs and see how far it gets you.
    (0)

  9. #309
    Player
    Decrith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    178
    Character
    Ruby Corona
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    I swear, some people live just to piss people off, thinking they know so much about something blasting out their opinions when what they really know is small in comparison to others.

    The point of the matter is, there is always a reason to bring in a particular job to a raid group.

    Monk has dragon kick, highest single target DPS, and a 20% mantra, a stun, an a silence (which is hard to time, but let's add that anyway)
    Ninja has the vulnerability debuff, second highest single target DPS (arguably) and a 5% mantra (if cross classed) and -10% more slashing resist and GOAD
    BLM has apocastasis, eye for an eye, str/dex VIRUS, Lethergy which can slow/heavy (mostly seen used on T5 dreads and T12 Bennus)
    SMN has eye for an eye, VIRUS, Battle Res, tri - disaster bind, a knockback move (through garuda), a stun (through ifrit) and Heavy with the effect coming from Miasma
    BRD has Songs that are invaluable to the raid, so I definitely don't need to explain why a BRD has it's use.

    Now let's look at dragoon
    We have a Piercing Debuff, 2 Stuns and a 5% mantra (if cross classed), and let me even drop the skill Feint with it's extremely limited use (especially since it's a GCD skill) That's all we have to give, compared to the others, there is really no reason to have a Dragoon to a raid.

    Each class has a place in the raid why dragoon doesn't, not only are their Utility lackluster in compared to other classes, their DPS is also lower in comparison to the other melee classes.
    (0)

  10. #310
    Player
    Spayd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    75
    Character
    Lillianne Nelligan
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 64
    Quote Originally Posted by hallena View Post
    However the "melee dps absolutely NEED to outdps ranged dps! mentality need to stop.
    I think melee should outdps ranged dps in single target since ranged have a way bigger aoe potential than the melee. Take BLM for example. They can keep up a DRG dps on Single target as it is right now, while being able to nuke the shit out of adds with flares and Fire 2, that pulls way more damage then any melee aoe. This is true with ninja too, where their only aoe options or either ninjutsus (that they can use once every 20 seconds). Brd have 3 aoe moves to, and can actually pull decent aoe damage, and same with smn where dots can spread and deal good amount of dps, even on a lower number of target.

    If you add to that that range should deal higher dps than melee on single target, there'll be no reasons to bring any melee ever. Melee deal higher dps on single target because thats what they are made for, while having a lower Aoe potencial.
    (0)

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