Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

[Orlandeu]

When we talk about balance, overpowered, underpowered class. Don't compare yourself to the best dps of them all while ignoring other classes or else blm, smn, bard also need buff

I said dragoon is fine when it come to their dps. Reading, learn how to do it.

Like what most people have said, Dragoons are not fine when it comes to their DPS. You saw a 520/4minute parse and immediately assume that Dragoons are already on par with the other melee classes.
This is also a comparison between the 3 melee dps jobs, not about every other job.
If you wanna compare/contrast all the dps jobs, Dragoons still get the short end of the stick. Why? Because on top of our mediocre dps, we lack utility. I don't know how many times this argument needs to be brought up for people like you to realize that Dragoons are not fine.

The only reason you think they aren't fine is because they aren't as good as monk and ninja. the 2 class above everyone else.

Also, no. The reason they're not fine is because they are'nt as good as a monk or ninja AND doesn't offer the same utility as both those classes. Where have you been when this discussion was going around?

[hallena]

snip

So its fine for melee dps to flat out outdps ranged dps because?

[Tilgung]

So its fine for melee dps to flat out outdps ranged dps because?

When ranged DPS can attack from farther away/while dealing with mechanics along with a great deal of raid utility? Yes. Yes they should.

[Dervy]

So its fine for melee dps to flat out outdps ranged dps because?

You can't compare Range and Melee DPS jobs. They have unique roles and provide utility for a raid that Melee DPS cannot. If Bards were on-par with NIN/Monk, everyone would go back to x3 Bard, x1 SMN/BLM. Did you play patch 2.0 and see the party make-ups when Bards were on-par with Monks DPS?

[hallena]

When ranged DPS can attack from farther away/while dealing with mechanics along with a great deal of raid utility? Yes. Yes they should.

Then why are monk and ninja's raid utility better than smn and blm?
Why do some fights require ranged dps to be in melee range?
Why melee get to have 20% more hp?
why can melee attack while moving?
why are melee's attack not interrupted when taking damage?
"playing melee is harder and unfair!" stoped being a thing in 2.2

[Orlandeu]

So its fine for melee dps to flat out outdps ranged dps because?

Because:

1. Bards can move while dishing out damage. Offers MP, TP, Foe's. Good bards are able to do massive amounts of DPS despite songs lowering their damage output.
2. Black Mages are also top contenders for single target DPS while also having the best AoE in town. They can go on DPSing forever too.
3. Summoners, while not shining as much, offers Resurrection, Virus.

Now let's take a look at Dragoons:
Disembowel - adds like 7-8% to a Bard's DPS. How gamebreaking!

Compared to other melee classes:
Ninja - Goad. Goad. Goad. 10% vulnerability debuff on an enemy 10 seconds out of a minute.
Monk - Best single target DPS in game. DK debuff.

Hopefully this helps you comprehend how lackluster Dragoons are compared to the other DPS jobs.

Then why are monk and ninja's raid utility better than smn and blm?
Why do some fights require ranged dps to be in melee range?
Why melee get to have 20% more hp?
why can melee attack while moving?
why are melee's attack not interrupted when taking damage?
"playing melee is harder and unfair!" stoped being a thing in 2.2

Like what Dervy has stated, comparison between all the dps jobs is absurd. The discussion is about the 3 melee dps classes.

[Tilgung]

-Debatable. For progression sake? Trick Attack, Manta and Dragon Kick are pretty amazing, yeah. Once ilvl's gone up they become less necessary and the ability to deal with mechanics while still being able to output decent damage is more desirable.
-They force the ranged into melee range for perma stacking purposes without demolishing your melee characters damage output while not effecting your ranged dps performance. None of the tactics are required so much that they greatly help deal with mechanics by reducing player error opportunities.
-More HP because lower M.Def.
-Because they're forced into melee range and melee range only.

[hallena]

Hopefully this helps you comprehend how lackluster Dragoons are compared to the other DPS jobs.

Dragoon ARE lackluster compared to other melee dps. However the "melee dps absolutely NEED to outdps ranged dps! mentality need to stop. This isn't 2.0 anymore where bringing melee dps screw you over. right now the only reason you don't stack monk and ninja is because of how the fights are designed. There are many fights where ranged dps deal with their own mechanics, stand out of aoe or even have to stack in melee range for a long time. Removing their "muh dps is ranged" perk useless. All dps need to be close to eachother regardless if they are ranged or melee

[Orlandeu]

Dragoon ARE lackluster compared to other melee dps. However the "melee dps absolutely NEED to outdps ranged dps! mentality need to stop. This isn't 2.0 anymore where bringing melee dps screw you over. right now the only reason you don't stack monk and ninja is because of how the fights are designed. There are many fights where ranged dps deal with their own mechanics, stand out of aoe or even have to stack in melee range for a long time. Removing their "muh dps is ranged" perk useless. All dps need to be close to eachother regardless if they are ranged or melee

I don't know where you got the idea that people are demanding for melee DPS to outdps ranged DPS from.

[hallena]

I don't know where you got the idea that people are demanding for melee DPS to outdps ranged DPS from.

When ranged DPS can attack from farther away/while dealing with mechanics along with a great deal of raid utility? Yes. Yes they should.

Right there, for exemple.