A Use for Classes.

[Bishop81]

It exists for PvP (whatever's left of it anyway) because you can boost resistances with materia and specific equipment. For PvE, that's how it should be imo. I remember back in WoW raids where entire raids of enemies were resistant/immune to fire, ...

This isn't WoW. Not everything has to be like WoW. Get over it.

And if you want WoW-type combat, just equip your Job Stone, get the latest Tomestone/Vendor gear, and away you go.

I'm just asking for an alternative for players who can't do the dodging due to latency, where they trade having to dodge for having to prepare more.

Where "prepare more" =

• collect skills and gear,
• put together a load out from available skills and gear that would work well with the encounter

Job (ultra convenient WoW-type class)

or

Class (preparation heavy old school RPG class)

it's completely your choice.

[RiceisNice]

...

Which brings back to a point I previously made; if you can grind classes and they can ignore mechanics, why even bother with jobs? Why go through an entire grind to accommodate latency-dependent encounters instead of tuning the encounters to accommodate for the average latency?

If a class has more hp to be more reliable to survive unavoidable AoE, why would I want to bring a job that has a lower overall survivability while not briging more DPS (which is the current problem with DRG in FCoB)? Not mention you get more HP anyway by melding Ilvl90 accessories with vitality in the current state of the game anyway.

My end line is that we don't want a environment where class can perform better than a job, or vice versa. Otherwise, it renders the entire concept moot. If we have to boost the classes to accommodate for something like latency, why cant they just tune the encounter instead of that, because adding onto the class affects all encounters, not just a specific one.

And I keep bringing WoW as an example because they have tried doing something like that in the past, and it just straight up didn't work out (element wheel), unless you want to come up with an example that we can build upon. Granted I don't think you were the one that was brought up the concept of element wheel, but we just instead built upon it.

[Bishop81]

why even bother with jobs?

Less prep work.

If you can dodge reliably, and like dodging, there is no reason to go through all the prep work required to gear up a Class.

hy go through an entire grind to accommodate latency-dependent encounters instead of tuning the encounters to accommodate for the average latency?

Define "avg latency"? Will tuning for avg latency make it too easy (hence boring) for people with low ping?

With Classes in my suggestion, the gameplay is shifted from "dodging in dungeons" to "figuring out the right skill set and gear to survive the attack".

f a class has more hp to be more reliable to survive unavoidable AoE, why would I want to bring a job that has a lower overall survivability ...

Who said anything about HP? Dodgeable AoE will be negate by Classes with skills and passive resist. More HP will just burden healers.

Survivability is depend on the player, not the Job/Class. If a player is good at dodge, his survivability will be fine regardless whether he plays a Job or Class. If a player can't dodge, then a Class is a good option - you pay for it with prep work required.

And I keep bringing WoW as an example because they have tried doing something like that in the past, and it just straight up didn't work out (element wheel),

WoW did it wrong, and as typical of Blizzard, they just cut it out instead of trying to fix it.

Would you then be able to play a class like a job and get the best of both worlds?.

The intent is to design it such that there is no point to doing so.

That if you start dodging as a Class, you gain no benefit - heck it could even lower your damage/healing. It would be like a tank (a real military tank) evading small arms fires ...

[RiceisNice]

...

> How is this applicable in the grand scheme of things? The way it is right now, mechanics either one shot you through sheer damage or knocking you off the platform (landslide), or deal an enormous amount of damage. The first two isn't applicable unless the design of being a class would outright ignore the mechanic altogether. And this has to persist for the entire fight. If a player cannot dodge something like landslide because of latency, one freebie every minute won't save them, unless you want them to be able to use that ability to dodge it everything and trivialize the encounter. Heck, even this is up to grabs for latency, like those moments where HG or holmygang doesn't save the tank, or benediction doesn't go out in time. You said it's not a straight up hp increase, so I'm really confused on what you want classes to be capable of, do you want them to have a perfect dodge that has a low cooldown for every landslide/weight or something?

> Then you try suggesting something. It doesn't help your end if to say "it's only one way of doing it, and they did it wrong." Is there even a proper way to implement it? Granted neither of us are game developers, so we might as well be asking for something completely out of reason. Come up with something as a compromise instead of tossing it aside and saying they could've done better. How do you propose to have an elemental/aspected damage mechanic in a game like this, without causing class/job segregation?

My bottom line is this; why do we want to change the class to accommodate for latency sensitive fights, instead of changing the encounter itself? That's more work on both the players and developers, especially since you want to implement the class changes in a way it does not throw things out of balance or cause segregation. If a class is capable of avoiding unavoidable AoE damage, are they going to do less damage than jobs? Can we stack classes only to eliminate major chunks of an encounter? If someone needs to play a class to avoid AoE because they themselves cannot avoid it, but do less damage than a job, why would I ever decide to bring them in? Can a class do more damage in the long run because they can ignore mechanics like landslide, if so then why would i want a job in titan EX?

[Bishop81]

...

"Ignore"/diminish the effects of the mechanic with proper prep IS the point of my proposed Class. It's pretty clear there are players that can't deal with it the normal way, i.e. dodging; which BTW pretty much negates the whole attack too.

I'm just suggesting an out for high ping players, such that they can negate the attack in other ways.

I asking for alternative ways to handle an encounter. There is no reason a fight has to be beat in one and only one way.

The gameplay is shifted from "dodging in the fight" to figuring out the right load out to deal with it - i.e. like in old school FF.

PS:

Have you ever played an old school FF?

PPS:

Also I don't know where you get the "unavoidable AoE" from. I was mainly talking about so called "dodgeable" AoE that is "undodgeable" for anyone with a high ping.

unless you want them to be able to use that ability to dodge it everything and trivialize the encounter.

This is also a tad amusing.

Pressing a movement key at the right time with a good connection the SE's server to dodge an attack = non-trivial

but

Figuring out what are needed skills and gear, collecting them if you don't have them, and figuring how to use them together effectively to negate an attack = trivial

OK ...

[RiceisNice]

...

> So how are we diminishing/ignoring the effects of mechanics like levaithan's slams and landslide? If you fall off, it's all over. Dodging/avoiding a mechanic is entirely separate from pushing a button to diminish it (which ninja can already do with both levi and titan mind you, using shukchi and perfect dodge respectively). And are there any trade offs for this aside from "the long hard work"? Are these classes doing less overall dps, have less healing output, or is naturally less tanky?

> If they are frequently at high ping, heres the thing; are they meeting the minimal requirements, which includes broadband connection. If their ping is constantly at a high latency that they can't realistically do these encounters, then it's something on their end, either not meeting the minimum or just being distanced. And even then, high latency can still get in the way of negating these attacks unless its a persistent passive stat (which or may not lead to more problems with the above)

> Dodging and dealing with mechanics is already "figuring out" the fight. How you "beat the fight" is also varied depending on the boss. T6 has the LoS vs briar, as well as SS vs burn. T7 has stacking renauds, T8 has 1 tank vs 2 tanks, etc etc.

> I've played a couple of old school FFs, which are turn-based games. It's hard to make that jump unless I am missing something here.