Job Uniquiness, how?

[Kiroh]

Being able to do anything on any class:

Unique compared to FFXI, yes.

Unique compared to EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN EORZEA, no.

I don't understand how anyone could think that every player, regardless of their current class, being able to use every non-class specific skill in the game would be unique. If I can DD and heal at the same time, why not DD nuke and heal at the same time? Heck, why not DD, tank, nuke and heal at the same time? And then you end up with nothing but a homogenized end game super class.

How special, you get to be the same as everyone else, grats!

[Choc]

Being able to do anything on any class:

Unique compared to FFXI, yes.

Unique compared to EVERY OTHER PLAYER IN EORZEA, no.

I don't understand how anyone could think that every player, regardless of their current class, being able to use every non-class specific skill in the game would be unique. If I can DD and heal at the same time, why not DD nuke and heal at the same time? Heck, why not DD, tank, nuke and heal at the same time? And then you end up with nothing but a homogenized end game super class.

How special, you get to be the same as everyone else, grats!

you forgot buff, debuff and crowd control, gotta multitask to the fullest extent.

[Kimahri]

you forgot buff, debuff and crowd control, gotta multitask to the fullest extent.

Would kiting be considered crowd control? Haha!

[Choc]

why kite when you have a healerbufferdebuffertankddcc class?

[Heartfire]

Choc-

Are you sure? I think either I saw something I didn't see, or someone is hacking. I could have sworn I saw a low-rank Gladiator casting Shadowsear..... I really hope it is Class Specific. It's just ridiculous that this can even happen, or would even be plausible. But even if I was wrong, you still get the picture.

And Kimahri, I can't help but agree with you. It really shouldn't be a topic for debate, as you are just stating the obvious. The system is broken, and there are far too many people who don't want to admit it. They're going to cling to a system that won't work because it makes them feel good to be "anything they want to be," which turns into "everything at the same time." This isn't how an RPG is supposed to work. This could work if it was a solo game, but the fact is it's an MMORPG. Without a group system, the game falls apart. The current system takes away the synergy that group members should have. A tank should always have a healer. It's just that simple.

Sometimes I think the people who like this system were the ones who played only melee DD jobs in FFXI. They're tired of being dime-a-dozen, and don't want defined roles, or any sort of "elitist" efficiency in making a group. Soon, the whole game is going to be full of lolDRG/rdm's!

[Choc]

yea heartfire, I have 50 con/48 thaum. Conjurers get their pathetic ancient magic spells at 44, thaumaturge get shadowsear at 42, both of those are class specific. I cant even use shadowsear on conjurer.

[Heartfire]

Weird.... Either I saw something else, (though Shadowsear has a pretty recognizable animation), or it was a glitch/hack. I just remember specifically being upset about it. (I actually turned off the game only a few minutes after logging in. Normally I wait until surplus to rage-quit! XD)

Oh well. If I ever see it again, I'll know to make a note.

On a side note, (after seeing some reasonable people responding to the thread), why do you think so many people are afraid of this change?

The only reason I can come up with is that they really do want to be everything. It just seems so pointless, though. I don't understand why people think it is great to have an "ultimate" character. Doesn't it take the skill out of everything? I thought the point of RPGs was to strategize, and use the tools that we have to overcome the obstacles in the game. If we have every possible tool... isn't that a little bit like cheating?

Story time!: This reminds me of a game I used to love to play, called "American McGee's Alice." It was so hard, and I am terrible at shooter-style games. But I loved it. After a while I had gotten what I thought to be pretty far into the game, but it just got too hard. I looked up some cheat codes. (Yes, I'm a sad panda). I obviously beat the rest of the game, but the fun was gone. Sure, I had fun killing the stuff that I couldn't get past on my own, but after a while, it just wasn't any more fun. It's because there was no threat. There was no question that I wouldn't be able to reach my goals. I didn't have to think about playing the game. I could go do whatever I wanted, and it didn't matter, because I had unlimited power. I didn't have to use strategy at all.

Although we obviously don't have a "god mode" for FFXIV, I still feel like having every ability available is about as much fun as cheating. If you have to cheat at a game, then you're not really playing it. At least, that's what I think.

Just my two gil, take it as you see.

So again, what do you think causes people to want this sort of system, where we have everything?

[TomCarroll]

How do you make a system where using a skill on a cross-class isnt as effective as the class its intended for but still make it worth your time?

Right on, man. There are two major issues that'll come up that everyone seems to be overlooking.

1. The strong desire to not be "cookie-cutter" is baseless. There will always be clear "bests" no matter what happens. Your class can't be too unique if everyone is building him the same.

2. As a result of needing all of these skills to be a viable contender in either endgame or whatever, you'll need to invest an ungodly amount of time ranking up as many other classes at it'll take you to develop your repertoire of abilities.

I like the idea of being able to take certain abilities, but the devs are going to end up alienating more people who can't invest the same time as the hardcore players. Right now, the push is for more subscribers, not to keep the stragglers from launch happy.

[Oren]

I stopped posting on this thread because I could see that it was just going to upset me. I try not to argue with people who are illogical, because logic is the only thing I argue with. I can't just cross-class an ability to not make a decent argument.

Kimahri is spot-on. That's exactly what is going to happen, and that is the exact opposite of "customization." If you are too blinded by the sheer greed of "I want to be good at everything at the same time," then you should go pick up a solo game.

I understand the desire for the game to be different. I'm not saying it has to be exactly the same. But what I am saying is that our current system is absolute crap, and it needs to be fixed. If it wasn't so terrible, then they wouldn't be working on over-hauling the system.

Being unique means specializing into something. There are plenty of roles, and there are plenty of ways to fulfill each role. I know you hate seeing FFXI as a reference, but it was SE's successful MMO, and it is a perfect example of my point. Each class had a role, and each one performed their role in ways that were unique to their class. Find a play style you like, and go with it. Everything you posted, about "an axe-man that can cast debuffs or offensive spells" is already a class. It's called a Dark Knight. Play a Final Fantasy game, why don'tcha?

I could go on... But I think I've made my point here. The system we have now will only lead to every one being exactly the same. It breaks the game to have a Gladiator cast Shadowsear at rank one.... I think the only reason you think it is good is because you want to have your character perform just as well as an entire group of people with dedicated roles. That's as childish as it is frustrating.

Totally agree.

[Kimahri]

The only reason I can come up with is that they really do want to be everything. It just seems so pointless, though. I don't understand why people think it is great to have an "ultimate" character. Doesn't it take the skill out of everything? I thought the point of RPGs was to strategize, and use the tools that we have to overcome the obstacles in the game. If we have every possible tool... isn't that a little bit like cheating?

Story time!: This reminds me of a game I used to love to play, called "American McGee's Alice." It was so hard, and I am terrible at shooter-style games. But I loved it. After a while I had gotten what I thought to be pretty far into the game, but it just got too hard. I looked up some cheat codes. (Yes, I'm a sad panda). I obviously beat the rest of the game, but the fun was gone. Sure, I had fun killing the stuff that I couldn't get past on my own, but after a while, it just wasn't any more fun. It's because there was no threat. There was no question that I wouldn't be able to reach my goals. I didn't have to think about playing the game. I could go do whatever I wanted, and it didn't matter, because I had unlimited power. I didn't have to use strategy at all.

Now this is exactly what I would've said to make everything about this system comparable. If we were to go ahead and look at this down the line. Instead of seeing a variety of classes, (A tank or two of Gladiator's, A couple of healer's/buffer's, and also a rather more DD/Magic DD's) you'll basically see 15 Thaumaturge's because they can take the best possible abilities from all other classes and incorporate it into a form of kiting and running around until the thing dies of exhaustion? How does that sound anything like the term, "Pleasing"?