Women and Armor!

[Amused]

You don't think dehumanising someone because of their gender is misogynistic?

The only people doing any dehumanizing here are the ones who keep insisting that this is misogynistic or objectifying. The only people reducing them to objects are the people saying they're being objectified.

Also, this might come as a shock to you, but, women and men dress differently, even in real life. Whether or not the outfit is sexual is entirely up to the interpretation of the person looking at it.

>A woman in the same gear is a walking pair of boobs and backside. There for titillation and, let's face it, fap material. That's objectification. No question.

Again, these are the words coming from you, not me. You are saying that they are just a walking pair of boobs and backside, not me or anyone else. I've never once considered characters in revealing armor to be nothing more than their bodies.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

You don't think dehumanising someone because of their gender is misogynistic? To treat someone as an object is to reduce their value as a human. You look at them and don't see a person, you see an object.

No, I am pretty sure I still see a person. People tend to be "titillated" by people, not objects. With due exceptions of course, but I believe living, warm flesh is a rather important element.

Funny jokes aside, what Amused is saying is pretty much spot on. Where you see "objectification", we see "characterization". To each his own.

[Amused]

How do you figure they make sense?

Ninjas aren't supposed to be getting hit in the first place. Regardless of whether people here want to accept it or not, women can and have used their looks to take advantage of men in situations. Something like this is perfect for someone who is trying to assassinate people. The female Ninja could use her looks to catch her male target off-guard, before going in for the kill. Therefore, it makes sense.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

Ninjas aren't supposed to be getting hit in the first place. Regardless of whether people here want to accept it or not, women can and have used their looks to take advantage of men in situations. Something like this is perfect for someone who is trying to assassinate people. The female Ninja could use her looks to catch her male target off-guard, before going in for the kill. Therefore, it makes sense.

Indeed. It might be useful to highlight that female Ninja, historically, were called Kunoichi.

Kunoichi (くノ一) is the term for a female ninja or practitioner of ninjutsu (ninpo). Women who used the kunoichi fighting style would wear clothes that would either show a lot of skin and barely cover the breasts, sometimes not even covering the breast. This is to sexually distract an opponent.

[Rbstr]

Ugh. So many people missing the point.
This thread is about giving characters the option to have the glowing green outfit with or without the epic wings if they want either one and not be limited by their gender. It's about giving people the option to add or withhold caramel based on their personal preferences.

This post is entirely too rational for a thread that's devolved into an argument what objectification is. And taxonomy of cat-girls...or something.

[HakuroDK]

Ninjas aren't supposed to be getting hit in the first place. Regardless of whether people here want to accept it or not, women can and have used their looks to take advantage of men in situations. Something like this is perfect for someone who is trying to assassinate people. The female Ninja could use her looks to catch her male target off-guard, before going in for the kill. Therefore, it makes sense.

I wouldn't think every female ninja would be comfortable with that, though, and I think every piece of AF gear should be more... uniform, similar to PLD, MNK, and other gear that is the same design across genders. If anything, there should be a separate kind of armor design to allow for the more seductive look as it is not for everyone. Were it, this topic wouldn't have almost 20 pages.

Also, in regards to the Kunoichi response, I don't believe every female ninja would be Kunoichi by that definition, only a few who were comfortable using their sexuality to take advantage. A traditional ninja, male or female, would still prefer not to leave skin showing, especially if the person under the armor was light-skinned, which could easily alert individuals and nullify the cover of darkness.

[Aegis]

Also, this might come as a shock to you, but, women and men dress differently, even in real life. Whether or not the outfit is sexual is entirely up to the interpretation of the person looking at it.

If I lend my wife my T-shirt, it doesn't become nipple tassles. My wife is able to buy a shirt the same design as mine without the person at the cash register swapping it with a bikini. The point is, in these games, women can't wear the all the same things as men. The option is never presented. The alternatives they are provided with are changed purely to show off sexual characteristics.

Again, these are the words coming from you, not me. You are saying that they are just a walking pair of boobs and backside, not me or anyone else. I've never once considered characters in revealing armor to be nothing more than their bodies.

/Headdesk. Are you gonna tell me with a straight face that the plate mail bikini design is not designed purely for titillation? That there's a practical reason for it and a practical reason for men not to have the same? If not, then can you provide another explanation other than to promote their sexual characteristics? There is so much denial going on here.

Funny jokes aside, what Amused is saying is pretty much spot on. Where you see "objectification", we see "characterization". To each his own.

The characterisation argument would hold more water if the only criteria for the change weren't gender and if the only changes weren't simply to show more skin.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

If I lend my wife my T-shirt, it doesn't become nipple tassles. My wife is able to buy a shirt the same design as mine without the person at the cash register swapping it with a bikini. The point is, in these games, women can't wear the all the same things as men. The option is never presented. The alternatives they are provided with are changed purely to show off sexual characteristics.

This might surprise you, but...

[Defteros]

Indeed. It might be useful to highlight that female Ninja, historically, were called Kunoichi.

Kunoichi (くノ一) is the term for a female ninja or practitioner of ninjutsu (ninpo). Women who used the kunoichi fighting style would wear clothes that would either show a lot of skin and barely cover the breasts, sometimes not even covering the breast. This is to sexually distract an opponent.

yes! yes!
Kasuga <3

[LineageRazor]

Indeed. It might be useful to highlight that female Ninja, historically, were called Kunoichi.

Kunoichi (くノ一) is the term for a female ninja or practitioner of ninjutsu (ninpo). Women who used the kunoichi fighting style would wear clothes that would either show a lot of skin and barely cover the breasts, sometimes not even covering the breast. This is to sexually distract an opponent.

Actually, Kunoichi (as well as male ninjas) would dress like... well, normal people. While it's true that the role of courteasian was one that kunoichi would take at times to get close to a target, along with clothing appropriate for that career, it was not their only disguise, or even their standard disguise. Ninjas, male or female, were spies, as well as assassins, and a spy doesn't dress like anything in particular. It'd be just as silly as if a spy always dressed in a black suit and tie, with a telephone cord in their ear and a holstered weapon visible.

The idea of "ninja dress" is a modern invention, and the stylized outfits are loosely based on the clothing worn by stage hands who would dress all in black to move settings around. The audience was trained by experience to ignore these stage hands - and so a stage hand that suddenly leapt from the stage and stabbed someone in the eye would be a real surprise. Kunoichi outfits are typically "feminized" versions of these already stylized clothes, so TWO steps removed from any sort of reality.

It would not surprise me if, when forced into combat, a kunoichi would show some skin if she felt that it would distract the opponent - or, indeed, ANY dirty trick she could think of to gain an advantage. It is, however, silly to claim that there's some standardized "sexy kunoichi" outfit designed for that purpose. Heck, any good ninja is going to avoid direct combat whenever possible anyway. Slip in unnoticed, get the job done, slip out unnoticed - that's the true ninja ideal.