XIV: P2P or F2P? XI never has Cash Shop, why XIV has?

[Shougun]

This isn't job lingo.

This is pretty much the defato definition of 'pay-to-win', I can source this for you if you want?

I personally don't like the idea of a cash-shop at all, but so far nothing is pay-to-win on the Mogstation.

IF they add in a "Pay for your wedding" tier system, THAT is bordering on pay-to-win, blocking off access to venues/content is teetering on it.
However, if it's simply an extra mount/minion, that's a completely different tier of problems, that's not blocking access to content, that's a reward tier.

If it isn't job lingo mate then it is completely fair to interpretation without argument.

Edit: at least if you respect the construction of it, again saying purple is black isn't quite legitimate but saying that winning relates to success which is to opinion is.

Google "What is Pay to Win" and get back to me, anyone with half a brain is able to do that I'm sure.

Come back to me where you can find "Vanity = Pay to Win" on ANY of the results.

Google interpretation?

Edit: Also for the heck of it since you said borderline would be blocking a content, then what about two seater mounts? That is a feature that relies on payment outside of the game.

[Shioban]

Google interpretation?

Hahahah, what.

Please read what I said, google the following or click the link below if that's too difficult, then proceed to read the top website results on what the internet community believes pay-to-win means.

I think you'll be in for a small shock.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+pay+to+win%3F

Apparently Urban Dictionary is a reliable, trustworthy and argument worthy source of information now.

Urban Dictionary was the only result?

Please check again, being obstinate for the sake of safe guarding your own ideals isn't a good indication of "What the community thinks Pay to Win is"

[Shougun]

Hahahah, what.
Please read what I said, google the following or click the link below if that's too difficult, then proceed to read the top website results on what the internet community believes pay-to-win means.
I think you'll be in for a small shock.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=What+is+pay+to+win%3F

Win, to have success, what is sucess? Largely opinion. Are you trying to be dense?

There may be a popularly accepted term, that does not mean other terms can -not- be allowed. So long as you give a honest interpretation.

[Roris]

Urban Dictionary was the only result?
Please check again, being obstinate for the sake of safe guarding your own ideals isn't a good indication of "What the community thinks Pay to Win is"

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage, while some argue that this mostly only applies to PvE and PvP content, that is the fighting whether it be mobs or players, a lot also argue that the definition of winning encompasses a lot of things outside PvE and PvP. On that side a lot argue that having exclusive items that can only be obtained with money also provides an advantage, because in a way you are indeed above the rest in vanity count. IE. non cash shop consumer can only have 10 mounts , cash shop consumer can have 11 mounts, that's still 1 above the rest. ARR already has this advantage/convenience with extra retainers and has cash shop exclusive items.

So basically, what a lot of people have already told you.

[Shioban]

I did read and the consensus is that an advantage is an advantage

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.
Yes you can't obtain certain vanity items without paying for it, yes other people can obtain if you can't afford/don't want to pay for it.

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M SAYING. My only point is that it's NOT pay-to-win.

It's not providing a gameplay advantage, in the case of ARR this would be;

STATISTICS.

What uses statistics?




Anything that affects or improves these statistics is considered to aid progression.

The current minions/mounts DO NOT AID PROGRESSION, therefore it is not considered pay-to-win by any basic MMO standard.


It's simply an "I want to obtain this, but I don't want to pay for it".

Is that bad in some ways? Yes most definitely, I completely agree it's not a good idea.

Is it pay-to-win? Absolutely not.

If not obvious since it appears you're getting a bit haughty - I'm not saying you're wrong in popular interpretation I'm saying there is an area of movement in language and fair rediscovery that people are completely shutting down rather than getting to the point of it.

No, you're arguing semantics for the sake of your own argument.

You're trying to flip the generaly accepted term of pay-to-win, that's all I'm arguing.


Cash-shops for the most part are more of a con than a pro, but you can't chop and change a definition for your own liking.

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.

If that's what you want to believe, no matter how ridiculous it is. Be my guest.

But they provide no advantage to gameplay, therefore are not considered pay-to-win.

If we were playing a Barbie MMO where the main goal was to obtain as many bows and dresses for your Burmese cat as possible, then yes I'd completley agree.

[Roris]

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase only in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.

Vanity is not considered an advantage, as it's not aiding progression.

Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

[Tupsi]

-snip-

Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

[Shioban]

Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

Arguing for the sake of arguing really, when all they have to do is simply not purchase it to prove their point.

If people don't want to pay for it, they won't and SE will avoid adding more. Numbers don't lie.

Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

Do you remember when they originally revealed minions.

Basically what they said was, they were to be used as either rewards or fun things to collect, as they had a low production value.
If you ever once thought "They'd never add this to a cash-shop", then you clearly weren't here on launch with the rest of us.


I can understand that what you want to do is collect minions, mounts and maybe other stuff in the future, but if it hinges so much on the fact that you don't want to pay for it, then simply DO NOT pay for it.

Numbers speak louder than words in the world of business.

"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do." While not everyone who purchases from a cash shop might think like this, it's one of the major obvious bases on which cash shops are built upon. People will buy shiny things to have more shiny things than others, therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise.

It's something we just have to deal with or buy into.

I genuinely dislike it, but I know just from walking around and seeing the minions and mounts that it's here to stay and that they'll add more, so for now it's just a "WELP".
Once I see something I find worth the money I'll probably buy into it as well, there's literally no point in me or anyone arguing the fact.

[Roris]

Tbh considering vanity an advantage is a bit silly. What are you gaining advantage over? Oh wow you have an ok looking body piece...now go clear Final Coil with nothing but that vanity armor on.

"Look I bought a cool horse and you don't have a cool horse, look at how cool my horse is and you don't have one but I do." While not everyone who purchases from a cash shop might think like this, it's one of the major obvious bases on which cash shops are built upon. People will buy shiny things to have more shiny things than others, therefore having an advantage at least collector or ego wise.

Basically what they said was, they were to be used as either rewards or fun things to collect, as they had a low production value.
If you ever once thought "They'd never add this to a cash-shop", then you clearly weren't here on launch with the rest of us.

Yes, the F2P safety net was really apparent since day one, no surprise there.

[Vondoomervil]

Just because you don't consider it an advantage so doesn't mean it isn't, so there goes that entire argument. Again, an advantage is an advantage, whether it provides a stat increase only in PvE/PvP or not. Besides mount and minion count is a stat in their respective guides, and it is indeed progression towards having the max amount of vanity items obtainable, so there you go.


Just because your gameplay doesn't involve collecting minions, mounts and other vanity items doesn't mean it's not part of the gameplay too. If they didn't want us to collect all the vanity stuff, then why put their systems and so many of them in the game in the first place, including guides to track the progress towards obtaining all of them?

Checkmate cash shopists.

Checkmate? hahaha. I'm happy the cash shop is here. Hope you enjoy it too