Exactly how much more do you expect us to pay?

[KIka93]

So it doesn't matter to you, only to those who care about vanity more than about BIS gear. What makes their preferences less important than yours? To somebody who cares more about vanity, mounts, minions and so on than about high end raiding, this cash shop deal is what P2W would be for you. If P2W would upset you, don't laugh at people getting upset about this.

Because if you want that shiny thing, go ahead and spend yourself 5 bucks. Is that a wallet breaker at the end of the day? I mean seriously get over yourself. Vanity vanity vanity, it's not like this game already has plenty of that stuff as it is. When you have Hula-style leis, dresses, tuxedos, weird...mistbeard mask thing, glasses out the rear end, dying armor, glamouring over armor, do you really think that at the end of the day, all of this bitching will matter?


If you are mad at paying for something like a minion when you are just as good without it, or that horsey that has no significant differences other than it's black and Sleipnir, then you my friend don't understand the fact that this crap happens in MMO's all the time. Fight another battle, because SE's not getting rid of the cash shop, I don't support their current prices, but I happily support them implementing it as a means for people to get stuff from events they'd have to wait a year to snag. I'd rather buy a ghost costume in January for 5 bucks, than wait a whole year to grab it free. Why wait that long?

[Vorpal_Spork]

I'm completely against double dipping too. I'm already paying for a subscription. If you want me to buy stuff from a cash shop then make the game free. I'm not going to pay for something twice. If I'm paying a subscription I should get the whole game.

If you are mad at paying for something like a minion when you are just as good without it, or that horsey that has no significant differences other than it's black and Sleipnir, then you my friend don't understand the fact that this crap happens in MMO's all the time.

No it doesn't. They either have a cash shop or a subscription, not both. The only other MMO I can think of that has both is Eve, and there were massive protests over it that caused the devs to abandon further development of the human avatar system that the cash shop revolved around.

[Meltzeiferion]

However, they aren't offering items that will give players an added advantage which will affect the game's progression. No Pay-2-Win in the cash-shop. It's all vanity.

There are achievements and items to collect in the game for a reason. Some players are types who progress in terms of acquiring these things rather than gear. It may be hard for some people to understand when they don't play the game in this manner, but just because it is 'only' vanity to some doesn't mean it isn't something more important to the experience for others.

It may not be pay to win in the sense of being able to buy the best/better gear or something, but it is something that means those who play to collect and for other reasons than gear now have to 'pay to complete'. I'm not this deep into collecting myself but I can understand that to some people this sort of thing is essentially taking the parts of the game that are meaningful to them and making them pay for it.

I think that one of the reasons a lot of people are upset with it as well is that in this case it goes a little further than just sticking random vanity pieces in the shop and appears to literally be a way to pay for an 'enhanced' experience in regards to a piece of content. For people who were really looking forward to this content, it is probably in a way comparable to something like having a dungeon in game that is freely accessible but you have to pay extra money to actually get the story elements. The content that a lot of people would consider truly important is there as you get the dungeon, the gear and etc. but people who actually care about the story aren't able to get the full experience unless they pay extra. Plenty of people wouldn't care about this but to a lot of others it would be an important missing element.

Maybe with that explanation it might be a little more understandable on why some are bothered by these sorts of things, and specifically how Eternal Bonding is apparently being handled. I'm somewhat waiting to see what the plans actually are though, and I made a decision a while back to stay till at least Gold Saucer to see how that turns out, as my interests in the game lay in side content like this over dungeons and what not.


Edit: As an extra note, just because a lot of other companies do it doesn't mean people have no right to complain about it here. Perhaps some of said people were here because it didn't have a cash shop. I know I actually opted not to play The Secret World when it launched because they openly planned to have sub fee + cash shop.

[Krr]

No it doesn't. They either have a cash shop or a subscription, not both. The only other MMO I can think of that has both is Eve, and there were massive protests over it that caused the devs to abandon further development of the human avatar system that the cash shop revolved around.

World of Warcraft, every Cryptic Studios game, every localized western NCSoft game, TERA at launch, et al.

Most of the 'free to play' games out there right now are basically just trial versions of the game where you have to subscribe or pay ala carte for 90% of the content. The F2P/Sub binary has been dead since DDO used a subscription/cash shop hybrid (with an extremely limited and grindy F2P option) for a temporary revival in the genre.

That said, every cash shop comes with consumer protest. It turns out that the current economic system is driven innately between a conflict where both buyers and sellers will go all-out to 'win'. Which is why I don't bother defending it; if people want items out of the cash shop it's certainly their role as buyers to demand more value for their dollar in sub fees.

[Riepah]

So, just because you are a citizen of a country, paying all kinds of taxes, you can walk into a store and demand the coat that you like to be given to you free even in-real-life?

Sounds like you're openly asking for P2W now, honestly. Just because you are a citizen of a country, paying all kinds of taxes, doesn't mean you'll get your hands on the best real-life weaponry, does it? A coat is a whole lot cheaper than a proper weapon, though.
Instead of making a completely pointless real life connection, just try to understand that different people play games for different reasons, and that what you consider important in a game isn't objectively more important than what another person considers important.

[FateAudax]

snip-

I understand where you're coming from. However, I believe if SE's head is in the right place, any minions or mount which is made available through the cash-shop wouldn't be taken into account for achievements. If it's personal collection, achievement or sense of accomplishment you're talking about then I guess it's just bad luck that SE made it this way.

Objecting the cash-shop and showing discontent is totally fine. However, there are people accusing SE for forcing them to pay extra on-top of their subscription. I'm just rebutting that in no way that SE is forcing them to pay extra on-top of their subscriptions. At the end of the day, no one can deny the fact that cash-shop items are indeed just optional extra add-ons. That's my point.

[FateAudax]

snip-

Doesn't change the fact that cash-shop items are still optional add-ons. In no way that it is gating content progression or giving added advantage to people purchasing it. Also I would like to press the fact that in no way SE is forcing you to pay extra on top of your subscription just to play this game. This game is playable with just the base subscription.

[tymora]

Selling things that make melding chances 100%, give better loot for X hours...those are bad and hurt the game.
Little items, meh... whatever.

[Riepah]

Doesn't change the fact that cash-shop items are still optional add-ons. In no way that it is gating content progression or giving added advantage to people purchasing it. Also I would like to press the fact that in no way SE is forcing you to pay extra on top of your subscription just to play this game. This game is playable with just the base subscription.

High end gear is optional too. You can play the game without it just fine, most people haven't stepped foot into Final coil, or even Second coil yet. By your logic, P2W would be perfectly fine. Nobody is forcing you to progress in content or increase your item level.

[Meltzeiferion]

They aren't literally forced to purchase it, sure.

However, we all pay our sub fees to play the game and enjoy it with various different play styles. They feel forced to pay as their play style is the one being monetized and thus they lose out on their enjoyment of the game unless they pay more. It is easy to say it is optional if you don't really care about collecting them or they are just some random fun for you, but what I'm trying to say is that while there are people who play this game for gear, getting rich/crafting, story or whatever else. There are also people who play this game to collect minions, to get achievements, to socialize in the world with their vanity. Many of them may enjoy earning these minions and mounts the same way others might enjoy earning better gear or maxing out their crafts. It isn't just achievements, it is collection in general.

In the past I've been ok with vanity in cash shops, but over time I've come to think about it more and as unfortunate as it is... selling vanity in these cash shops is cool for some folks, but is at the same time turning a certain play style into one you have to constantly pay extra for. It is bad luck it turned out that way, but entirely understandable to me at least why some people are disturbed by it.

Also while this isn't really related to that specifically, I would say that as customers it is to our benefit in general to get the most out of our money, just as it is to a corporations benefit to get the most out of us that they can. You have the right to support these cash shop systems, but it's a bit sad that people who are literally trying to protect their own interests/expenses vs. a company like SE are actually looked down on because they don't want to pay more. I admit that plenty of people could be arguing it better, but I'd say it's a good thing that they are protecting their interests and trying to to get as much as they feel their money (sub fee) is worth.