So what skills can we expect at lvl 60?

[Kenji1134]

Actually, I would love to see an "anti-fishing-rng" skill added as a lvl 60 ability to the base set of crafting skills. - If they can implement this =)

"Favorable Conditions"
No CP Cost
Useable at 5+ IQ stacks.
Changes current condition to Excellent.
Causes ALL following conditions to be Poor for the remainder of the synthesis.

[Lemuel81]

^^ this

[Sibyll]

I dont see cross skills going away. Id be major ticked off after all the work I put in to get where I am today. Dont see much revamping either. Probably a few new skills, some that all classes get and than a new cross skill. Im really hoping they add some content like more quests maybe some group crafting missions. we'll see

So you think it's good design that you need to level every single crafting class to 50 in order to effectively use the one or two classes that you are actually interested in?

What's the point of having class-specific skills if the end approach is to cross class all the important class skills so that all eight DoH classes play identically? Why not just skip that step and give all of these skills as base skills.

The only difference between BSM and CRP right now is whether you are making ingots or lumber, which is very underwhelming to me considering the lengths they've gone through with the crafting skill system.

You might be content with the way things are right now, but I think this could be more than the gimmicky WoW system they are pushing toward. The framework is already there.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

Actually, I would find it interesting to have at least certain content that requires specific classes to craft specific things, and you can't use cross class. Especially if these synthesis are challenging synths. Different classes might actually start taking different approaches to completing their craft successfully, which would be the more interesting part.

Right now, once all your crafts are 50, and you have all your tools, and your gear is melded the same way (Artisan equips very accomodating here) the classes play exactly the same. Forcing Single Class could be fun. (I'm thinking, for crafting Airship Parts. You might components made by every class, and just like Ixali lock you out of cross class at some levels, maybe we'd need to use facilities that would give us a similar debuff) Maybe not permanent, but specific things that limit our cross class, and you would have to truly master THAT CLASS to reliably HQ.

[RiceisNice]

u can expect 5 star crafting and the need to have 15 IQ stacks and u need to hit excellent at least 5 times in a row to have a decent chance at HQ. Really......probably something like that xD

15 IQ stacks is required to have a decent chance at HQ....when the max stack is 11... I can somewhat see this coming.

[Sibyll]

Actually, I would find it interesting to have at least certain content that requires specific classes to craft specific things, and you can't use cross class. Especially if these synthesis are challenging synths. Different classes might actually start taking different approaches to completing their craft successfully, which would be the more interesting part.

Right now, once all your crafts are 50, and you have all your tools, and your gear is melded the same way (Artisan equips very accomodating here) the classes play exactly the same. Forcing Single Class could be fun. (I'm thinking, for crafting Airship Parts. You might components made by every class, and just like Ixali lock you out of cross class at some levels, maybe we'd need to use facilities that would give us a similar debuff) Maybe not permanent, but specific things that limit our cross class, and you would have to truly master THAT CLASS to reliably HQ.

This is what I'm kind of getting at. It gets really old and boring when I switch from BSM to ALC to CRP and do all the same rotations in identical stats/melds with the only difference being whether I'm smacking ore, logs, or fish.

[RiceisNice]

..

I think me and sibyll butted heads about this sort of thing back then, but they'd have to redo some of the classes in order for this to work (or straight up not have them involved in those crafting scenarios.) ALC for example, how can you design a craft to revolve around alchemy's cross skills when one of them is TotT? CRP relies on IQ stacks which can only go so high with your limited CP and MM being your only options to prolong a craft to build those stacks (on top of finishing the progress). LTW can prolong their crafts with WN II, but everything else falls into RNG for quaility increases, or starve yourself entirely of CP. You'd be trying to finish a 10-piece puzzle with only one piece.

Even for the ixali crafts that lock me out of cross skills, I still end up using the common base skills... I don't even use SHII anymore for these. Crafting as of right now is incredibly linear regardless of what class you are, if they want to differentiate they'd need to change the foundation (which more than likely takes a good amount of effort to do, and now it has to be weighted if its worth putting development time into over other content.) The way it is right now, there's no "mastering THAT class to HQ" unless they were to redo crafting and their skills as a whole.

[Sibyll]

snip

We probably did butt heads. I think the crafting system could use an overhaul and an expansion would be the most appropriate time to do this, which is what my point was. It'd be impossible to do this in a patch. Overall I think the skills are just very poorly balanced. You don't use many of the base class skills like Standard and Advanced Touch. Basic Synthesis is outclassed in literally every way by Careful Synthesis II as is Careful Synthesis I. Flawless Synthesis is useless. I've never used Observe. The Brands could be removed to be honest. Ingenuity I really serves no purpose once you get Ingenuity II other than being a bit cheaper. Rumination isn't awful, but Byregot's is more important.

Some of the more useless class skills would need to be rebalanced and/or new skills would need to be added for this to work well. They could still have cross class on generic recipes, but I think some depth could be gained from having recipes that were more focused on using class specific skill sets rather than the same old Hasty Touch spam.

[RiceisNice]

One thing they could do is specialized team crafting for something as big as an airship. Like 2 or 3 people would take turns on each step with the enforced no-cross-skills. Buffs, durability and progress would be shared, but CP is individualized. At least that way you can have pieces of a puzzle coming together, rather than trying to attempt a craft with only a few (which goes back to me mentioning that some classes just aren't feasible for developing a craft to capitalize on their skills)

[xPeAcEx]

ALC
level 55. ToT 2 (Restore CP off of excellent cond).
level 60. Comfort Zone 2

ARM
level 55. RS 2 - Greater success rate
level 60. PbP 2 - Increases quality by 1/3 or just no cp cost.

BSM
level 55. Ingenuity 3
level 60. Turn it around, change a cond into a normal/good/excellent (rng)

CRP
level 55. Rumination 2.
level 60. Byregot's Blessing 2

CUL
level 55. Hasty Touch 2, More efficiency, same success rate.
level 60. Perhaps a Variation of Steady Hand or a CP less Reclaim, maybe both.

GSM
level 55. Manipulation 2
level 60. Innovation 2

LTW
level 55. Waste Not 3
level 60. Step Less, ToT no longer consume a step for the next 10 steps.

WVR
level 55. Careful Synth 3
level 60. Perfectionist, Restore CP for every successful increase to progress.

MISC.
IQ gets a rework to allow for more stacks or only half stacks being consumed per rumination or bb.