It's been informed to me that WAR's wearing STR gear isn't correct.

[Zdenka]

PLD in full VIT gear does 200 DPS in shield oath... it should be closer to 250-275 in STR accessories, and then 350-400 in Sword Oath with a 115 weapon. You'll often see them lower than 200 on parses due to fighting breaks, TP = 0 etc. I haven't saved them but when we were wiping on T13 in the early phases before adds, my DPS was 200-210 on average for a reference point.

From when we were playing around with it in 2.3 we estimated STR PLD in Sword Oath has a higher DPS ceiling than a STR WAR does without defiance and its MULTITUDES easier, of course you needed a WAR MT back then but we have NIN now. If you compare Defiance vs Shield Oath then WAR wins every time due to Unchained/Berserk. On training dummies trying to perfect WAR rotation I found if I missed 1 GCD at all for any reason such as not getting fracture up when i'm supposed to etc WAR instantly drops 10 DPS, PLD doesn't really have this problem as they lose equal or less DPS from disconnecting from the boss than WAR does and its nearly impossible to ever mess up the PLD rotation.

Overall point of the post... if you really want to gun DPS STR WAR MT and STR PLD OT is the way to go, not sure how fun T10-13 might be right now like that but the rest of the content should be fun!

[SpookyGhost]

Overall point of the post... if you really want to gun DPS STR WAR MT and STR PLD OT is the way to go, not sure how fun T10-13 might be right now like that but the rest of the content should be fun!

WAR MT / WAR OT is better if the OT ever needs to tank anything. PLD MT / WAR OT is also better if the OT ever needs to tank anything. WAR MT / PLD OT is only viable in fights where there is nothing for the OT to actually tank, and in which case you might as well bring another DPS. The WAR OT rotation isn't complicated or somehow more difficult to land than the PLD rotation:

WAR rotation #1: SE -> Fracture* -> SP -> etc
WAR rotation #2: SE -> Fracture* -> BB -> etc
PLD rotation #1: Fracture -> RoH
PLD rotation #2: RoH

*: Dunno if Fracture ticks actually benefit from SE, so maybe this should go first and then SE -> SP/ SE -> BB. Dunno.

There's also Defiance -> Infuriate -> Unchained -> 5 Wrath -> IB, but that assumes you won't need it within 2 minutes for tanking things. Regardless, not a complicated rotation, so messing it up won't happen unless you have alzheimers. If you're away from the boss for an extended period of time while he's still able to be hit, then WAR DPS will suffer a bit of loss if Fracture isn't already ticking... but that's what Fracture is for.

Anyway. Difference between PLD OT and WAR OT DPS is minimal to begin with. The more important point would be that WAR MT does more DPS by a larger amount, but that WAR would also need to make up for the fact that the PLD is swapping in and out of Shield Oath to tank adds or swap for a mechanic. If the following conditions are met then WAR MT / PLD OT is the best choice:

1. The OT never needs to tank anything.
2. You need Hallowed Ground.
3. You need two different tanks for quicker LB building.
4. You have the possibility of your MT dying to a mechanic and needing an OT to avoid a wipe.

So... basically nothing in the game. I'm fine with being wrong, I'm not trying to claim to have all the facts or anything - but considering WAR's tank stance is off the GCD and WAR does more damage in tank stance and that stance is completely negated if the WAR only needs to tank in short burts, I can't think of a fight in the game where WAR MT / WAR OT or PLD MT / WAR OT wouldn't be better. I also dunno what fight in the game you'd be doing the content in full STR where your job choice matters, so I'm pretty sure WAR MT / WAR OT is better in the situation you're describing - or just solo WAR tank. Maybe T10, but for a large portion of that fight both tanks are in their tank stance. Same for T11. T12 the OT needs to constantly be in and out of their stance. T13 there's an entire add phase where both tanks are tanking 95% of it, on top of being in tank stance for 4 of the 5 Akh Morns. SCoB everything is solo tankable... everything else is either solo tankable or WAR MT / WAR OT is better... sorry I'm just rambling here, I'm just curious where WAR MT / PLD OT would be better.

[Sleigh]

WAR MT / WAR OT is better... sorry I'm just rambling here, I'm just curious where PLD MT / WAR OT would be better.

You're forgetting one huge, undeniable benefit of bringing PLD - Rage of Halone STR debuff. It's huge, and its loss is both a survival risk in new content and such a mitigation loss otherwise that you have to lose a lot of healer DPS to compensate.

Also, as mentioned in a topic about T13 where I asked about who should MT T13, and as I learned in practice, it's really all about PLD MT there in our gear level. The rest of the non-Savage content is questionable as to having PLD MT, but T13 ... you want PLD, with WAR OT.

[SpookyGhost]

You're forgetting one huge, undeniable benefit of bringing PLD - Rage of Halone STR debuff. It's huge, and its loss is both a survival risk in new content and such a mitigation loss otherwise that you have to lose a lot of healer DPS to compensate.

I see what you mean, but that's why PLD MT / WAR OT exists. WAR MT / WAR OT is for farm content for optimal DPS, if we're talking about FCoB then you should be bringing both tanks, for sure. T9 you may want both for progression, but I think the echo kind of mitigates needing Path/Halone. I also agree that PLD MT is best at our current gear level for T13, it might also be best if it's left that way unless the PLD is somehow able to tank adds in Sword Oath. Kinda curious what the numbers are like for PLD/WAR OT with Dread weapon and Ruby accessories, but I don't know if the people who have access to those weapons have done any testing.

[Sleigh]

I see what you mean, but that's why PLD MT / WAR OT exists. WAR MT / WAR OT is for farm content for optimal DPS, if we're talking about FCoB then you should be bringing both tanks, for sure. T9 you may want both for progression, but I think the echo kind of mitigates needing Path/Halone. I also agree that PLD MT is best at our current gear level for T13, it might also be best if it's left that way unless the PLD is somehow able to tank adds in Sword Oath. Kinda curious what the numbers are like for PLD/WAR OT with Dread weapon and Ruby accessories, but I don't know if the people who have access to those weapons have done any testing.

The problem with fights that WAR/WAR is a decent comp on, is that most of them can be solo tanked, or have PLD OT if you bring one to ghetto out the tank swap.

T1-5 - solo tank
T6 - if 2 tanks, WAR MT with PLD OT using Cover to force stack drops. 1 tank otherwise
T7 - STR debuff is great and allows plenty of extra healer DPS. Can tank adds in Sword Oath by now with CDs anyway, Echo OP.
T8 - solo tank
T9 - solo tank
T10+ - need STR debuff + SE + SP, WAR possibly best MT for T10-12 with practice and most certainly as we gear up.