The Discrimination Factor of Solo/party to Casual/Hardcore respectively.

[Ventus]

Btw, this is such a invalid comparison as to be insulting. Comparing civil rights to casual players wanting to be spoon fed and given the same reward as those who put more into the game is the height of ignorance and arrogance.

I think you're overreacting a bit. The comparison isn't meant to be offensive and have you rage at the difference in magnitude (which I'm well aware there is a vast difference) and besides you've completely missed the point.

This isn't about spoon feeding the "casuals" as you like to call them the same content hardcores work for, it's about having content and it being able to be enjoyed on a variety of levels and not limiting it to a single type of player base. When you think that everyone having access to content means the "man" is shutting hardcores down and lowering them to the casual level then you aren't thinking of all the possibilites on how an MMO can work.

Civil Rights means equality for all regardless of race, religion, or creed of any kind, and that parallel I made was meant to show that casuals and hardcores are going through their own petty war. Don't tell me otherwise, it's evident all over these forums. Hardcores often, but not always, attempt to cut off casuals to a little baby corner where there is no further enjoyment for them.

So don't tell me my comparison is "invalid" or you're somehow insulted by it, as if you struggled during an era prior to civil rights, because it's merely there to prove a point. People need to shut up about who deserves more than the other and start being productive and thinking of different ways for the game to work, casual or hardcore.

Maybe if we put our energy into that instead there'd be less people getting so whiney all the time about how them being able to play for hours and hours a week and somehow not having other aspects in their life to attend to makes them better or more deserving of what the game has to offer.

[HiirNoivl]

there'd be less people getting so whiney

I HAVE A DREAM!!!

[Ventus]

I HAVE A DREAM!!!

It's funny but true, we have our own little discrimination war going on here in the forums.

Only question is...will people realize the irony in what we're repeating. It may not be separation of something vastly important in this world, but if anyone has paid attention in history humanity has been through this bit in many ways since the day we surfaced.

[zaviermhigo]

I think solo and party shouldn't be two different worlds. There should be one world: partying, and FFXIV can create different content to rank up / get gear that requires different play times (they are already kinda doing this)

for example: You only have 2 hours to party but want to make it count, then do 2 dungeons runs, or do some guildleves with pals.
If you have a weekend or more to dedicate you have to party up with friends for long grinding sessions and dungeons, nm hunting and other stuff that requires time.

Why short time = mainly solo/casual, and long time= hardcore, (i'm not saying casual/short time people should get same gear as long time). They don't understand people flip flop in and out of these roles interchangeable with life, if you're in high school, high school is easy, you have tons of time to play video games because homework takes less than two hours on most days (in highschool i was a hardcore gamer all the time, and still made straight As and passed my APs, its just due to sheer amount of time for study and play time you have, i wish i had that time). If you're in college though, you may have 4 months over summer to play, a month over winter break, and maybe when busy work (yeah i said it a lot of college is still busy work and busy reading) is lighter, you can play casually. (i'm here now) When you enter the work force, you may only have weekends if that to play mmos, and once you have kids forget it, unless you sneak time when there asleep, or you teach them to fish for you ^^ (i will be here in 5 years maybe, at least the workforce part) I will playing only casually at this point in terms of time but in terms of how I want to play I might still want to play hardcore.
People aren't just born hardcore or casual gamers, its a product of what is usually going on in our lives, or how much we like the game or gaming in general.

[Preypacer]

Maybe if we put our energy into that instead there'd be less people getting so whiney all the time about how them being able to play for hours and hours a week and somehow not having other aspects in their life to attend to makes them better or more deserving of what the game has to offer.

I love how you spend a good chunk of your post talking about the pointless bashing of each side against the other, talk about it being better to be constructive... and then conclude it with that paragraph... which is completely non-constructive, and is clearly "pointless bashing".

At least you make it clear where your bias lies.

[Ventus]

I love how you spend a good chunk of your post talking about the pointless bashing of each side against the other, talk about it being better to be constructive... and then conclude it with that paragraph... which is completely non-constructive, and is clearly "pointless bashing".

At least you make it clear where your bias lies.

No lol, I'm actually currently pretty hardcore a player myself since it's summer (so I'd be insulting myself) and my point in that last paragraph was to say that we shouldn't think our ability to put time into MMOs more makes us better than other people or entitles us to more content.

Sorry if I worded it too harshly, we all get caught up in the motions of these debates.

[Preypacer]

No lol, I'm actually currently pretty hardcore a player myself since it's summer (so I'd be insulting myself) and my point in that last paragraph was to say that we shouldn't think our ability to put time into MMOs more makes us better than other people.

Sorry if I worded it too harshly, we all get caught up in the motions of these debates.

Fair enough.

However, going on that theme, one might also argue that many people who have less time to play seem to believe that makes them special as well; even entitled.

I've seen well more than my share of people arguing that they should have content that gets them the same exact rewards as the more involved content gives, but that can be done in a fraction of the time and effort. A number of them love to pull the "victim card" by claiming that if it doesn't happen that way, then they're being "punished". Further, I've seen this in MMOS where casual players are catered to much more than so-called "hardcores" are to begin with.

My take on that would be something like this... Say you have a dungeon that takes, overall, 3 hours to finish. 3 hours in one stretch is going to be too long for some people. So, fine, you break the dungeon up into "chunks", with "save points" at certain milestones, like after each boss. You have the option of continuing on from that point, which those with more time can choose to do, or you can choose to "save your progress" at that point, and continue on at a later time. This way, both are getting exactly the same content for exactly the same rewards. Nothing has to be "simplified" or "made shorter".

Nyzul Isle in FFXI worked something like that.

There would have to be things in place to prevent it from being exploited, however. Like, the dungeon would "save" the state of certain things from when the progress was saved (total time remaining, party make-up, etc). Otherwise, no doubt, players would figure out "Hey, if we get to this save point, and then save... we can leave the dungeon, do "x", "y" and "z" and then re-enter and have a much easier time with the next part...".

Activating the object could offer at least 2 options...
1) Save and continue at a later time (progress is saved up to that point and group is automatically teleported to outside the dungeon).
2) "Time-Out", might allow up to 10 minutes "off the clock" for bathroom breaks, getting a drink, etc. Players can continue on when ever they're ready. The timer would resume counting down either at the end of the 10 minutes, or as soon as a monster is slain (which wouldn't be very far past the save point). There is no progress saved for this option.
3) A possible third option would be "cancel"... basically "don't do anything".

Each option would have to either be initiated by a designated person, or every person would have to hit the same option in order for it to register. This is to prevent people from accidentally (or deliberately) putting the dungeon on pause, etc.

Or of course, the players could prefer to just go straight through and not stop at all.

[Ichi]

It's funny but true, we have our own little discrimination war going on here in the forums.

Only question is...will people realize the irony in what we're repeating. It may not be separation of something vastly important in this world, but if anyone has paid attention in history humanity has been through this bit in many ways since the day we surfaced.

Actually casual players are not a race, or a religious group, or even a philosophical belief, most casual players would play a lot more if they could. Being a casual player is not something you were born into.

The complaints on the casual player are more like the complaints of the poor man vs the rich, =time for =progress is not civil rights its socialism.

[Eekiki]

Ah geez, not this again...

[Crica]

Ah geez, not this again...

No doubt.

In the end, if SE wants everyone's money in subs, SE WILL cater to BOTH hardcore AND casual, regardless if either want either to play the same game.

It's that simple.