DRG has been broken for far too long. Fix it SE

[Daweism]

My personal suggestion:
The most reasonable request to buff our damage would be to add potency to Phlebotomize, Chaos Thrust, and Vorpal Thrust.

Vorpal Thrust 200 > 220
Phlebotomize 170/25 > 170/35
Chaos Thrust 200/30 > 220 /40

This seems like a reasonable request, makes Vorpal Thrust worth using at low level (currently Impulse Drive spam as a low level Lancer is the highest damage outside of Life Surge cooldown before you get Full Thrust) and ups our sustained damage without adding too much to our burst.

That's not nearly enough of a buff to put Drg on the same playing field as Mnk and Nin, not even close, sadly.

[kyrios91]

Power Surge is an awful skill. Just like all "press this button on CD or have sub-par dps" skills. It's uncreative and boring game design.

That's basically saying that Life Surge is an awful skill as well.

Seriously the thing with most of you guys you guys try too hard and basically want to revamp the Job / make an entirely different Job with different playstyle and trying to make it similar to MNK / NIN while the issue is only (1)Low M.DEF and (2)Weaponskills that should have higher potency due to not having speed boosts like GL3 and Futon.

[kyrios91]

Vorpal Thrust 200 > 220
Phlebotomize 170/25 > 170/35
Chaos Thrust 200/30 > 220 /40

This seems like a reasonable request, makes Vorpal Thrust worth using at low level (currently Impulse Drive spam as a low level Lancer is the highest damage outside of Life Surge cooldown before you get Full Thrust) and ups our sustained damage without adding too much to our burst.

IMO would be better if:

HT: +20%
VT: 250
FT: 350
CT: 250/50

And +100 or +150 MDEF. I don't really get how we're armored to the teeth yet took more damage then people who just wear robes and cloths. We take more damage than a BLM which is meant-to-be the glass cannon of the game. I always think DRGs supposed to be the BLM of the melee classes but eh.

[treuhavik]

Firstly, I've been wanting to say this for a while now and it is not directed toward anyone in particular;

MNK = Low Burst / High Sustained

NIN = Mid Burst / Mid Sustained

DRG = High Burst / Low Sustained

So, stop judging DRGs on parse numbers as they reflect average damage per second (which is sustained). Thank you.
_______________________________________________________________________________

As for fixing DRG, it needs 1) increased magic defense, on par with that of the other melee, with or without a higher physical defense and 2) Increase in spike damage potential as NIN treads a little too close to DRG numbers. Done.

P.S. After any and all changes, DRG DPS will, and should, continue to be lower than that of MNK and NIN because it is a burst damage dealer, an add killer.

[kyrios91]

Firstly, I've been wanting to say this for a while now and it is not directed toward anyone in particular;

MNK = Low Burst / High Sustained

NIN = Mid Burst / Mid Sustained

DRG = High Burst / Low Sustained

So, stop judging DRGs on parse numbers as they reflect average damage per second (which is sustained). Thank you.
_______________________________________________________________________________

As for fixing DRG, it needs 1) increased magic defense, on par with that of the other melee, with or without a higher physical defense and 2) Increase in spike damage potential as NIN treads a little too close to DRG numbers. Done.

P.S. After any and all changes, DRG DPS will, and should, continue to be lower than that of MNK and NIN because it is a burst damage dealer, an add killer.

I totally agree - most people here suggested fixes that makes DRGs another MNK / NIN. We're really a burst damage role, but even as of now, our "burst damage" is still subpar compared to MNK and NIN.

NINs attack faster than DRGs and their weaponskills damage are close to theirs - AE deals 320 potency while FT deals 330 and Rai/Suiton is basically a burst damage every 20 secs. Also they have a constant +20% bonus damage buff that is a stance, which does not interrupt their rotations at all. Click and you're all set.

MNKs will hit anything for more than 700 dmg aside from Demo / ToD the moment they have GL3 and unless there's a huge downtime, GL3 is really easy to keep up.

So unless NINs weaponskill potencies are nerfed which will QQ all the NIN mains in the game, they gotta buff DRG up. The solution is simple, really, just as what you said: Increased potency on some of DRG weaponskills and MDEF which is at least on par with other melee classes or slightly more. I cannot emphasize the annoying fact that we wear "armor" yet we're weaker than people who wear robes / cloth / leather.

[NolLacnala]

MNK = Low Burst / High Sustained
NIN = Mid Burst / Mid Sustained
DRG = High Burst / Low Sustained

Add values to this to see the discrepancies

MNK = 1/5 Burst (4/5 with PB), 5/5 Sustained, 3/5 Utility
NIN = 4/5 Burst, 4/5 Sustained, 4/5 Utility
DRG = 4/5 Burst, 2/5 Sustained, 2/5 Utility

Bonus damage from TA is considered the ninja's because it's additional damage the team would not have received without the NIN present

[kyrios91]

Add values to this to see the discrepancies

MNK = 1/5 Burst (4/5 with PB), 5/5 Sustained, 3/5 Utility
NIN = 4/5 Burst, 4/5 Sustained, 4/5 Utility
DRG = 4/5 Burst, 2/5 Sustained, 2/5 Utility

Bonus damage from TA is considered the ninja's because it's additional damage the team would not have received without the NIN present

So to summarize NINs are imbalanced / the better melee DPS class. They score 12/15, MNKs 9/15, and DRGs 8/15. IMO they could just give DRG an MDEF buff and leave it as it is and nerf NINs. To make DRGs relevant, they should have 5/5 burst - which is simply fixed by an increase in their weaponskills' potencies.

[treuhavik]

I highly doubt any NIN is bursting over 1.8k in a single GCD like DRG.

I see and like what the devs were trying to do here with our melees and I also agree with the community that the damage gap between each of them needs widening, but I wholly disagree with those "ratings".

We've done our part. Its' the dev. team's job to crunch the numbers and strike a proper balance. Let's leave it to them.

[Alistaire]

So to summarize NINs are imbalanced / the better melee DPS class. They score 12/15, MNKs 9/15, and DRGs 8/15. IMO they could just give DRG an MDEF buff and leave it as it is and nerf NINs. To make DRGs relevant, they should have 5/5 burst - which is simply fixed by an increase in their weaponskills' potencies.

Or maybe it's just that "sustained damage" matters more. Also 87% of stats on the internet are made up, so those 1/5 4/5 and 5/5's are kind of...one person's opinion. One person's quickly-calculated eyeballed and barely backed up opinion.

I highly doubt any NIN is bursting over 1.8k in a single GCD like DRG.

DRG needs a GCD for that? Pshaw.

[treuhavik]

Or maybe it's just that "sustained damage" matters more.

We should be judging by overall damage done between the jobs in an encounter, all bearing the same responsibilities of course.

Also 87% of stats on the internet are made up, so those 1/5 4/5 and 5/5's are kind of...one person's opinion. One person's quickly-calculated eyeballed and barely backed up opinion.

^ This. And even that stat is made up.

DRG needs a GCD for that? Pshaw.

I lol'd, being a NIN myself. I guess we'd need to measure each job's damage done in a 3 second window (to be fair) to really tell who the burst king is, but I'll leave it to those who really care. My bet is still on DRG.