Malmsight and Detect

[Vandril]

I've been playing Frontlines with Ninja for a while now, and I'll agree that I've yet to find even a small use for Malmsight. It should be a fairly long duration buff (with a CD maybe 2x longer than its duration) that adds all visible (as in, not hidden) enemy targets within a certain range of radius of the Ninja to appear on the minimap (and zone map) for all players in your party. Or maybe even a passive that's always active with the same effect.

Detect, however, is quite useful. It's niche, sure, but useful. I use it when scouting bases, or as soon as I open in a big battle for a node (as to catch hidden enemy Ninja before they can open, and thusly aid my group). My only problem with Detect isn't that it's a useless skill, but that there's really only one class with Hide, anyway - Ninja. Once more classes get to use Hide (if any more are to come), then it'll become a bit more useful.

Also, Detect can NOT be replaced as a scouting tool by any other AoE. Its field of effect is HUGE. No damaging AoE is that large.

[Nalien]

Also, Detect can NOT be replaced as a scouting tool by any other AoE. Its field of effect is HUGE. No damaging AoE is that large.

The thing is, they don't need to be. Once I'm sitting in an AoE the Ninjas only advantage is a surprise Overwhelm, something they can do just as easily the moment they see Detect wipe Hide. Were Detect to have an additional effect on enemies who are Hidden, I'd find it much more useful, though still niche.

The current pay off verses AoE attacks is certainly that Detect has greater range, but that just isn't particularly useful at all. If I discover a Hidden Ninja, the advantage should be mine, instead they have the advantage because Detect does nothing and they still know I'm there, while I'm going "Did Detect uncover anyone?". Were they at least hit with Stun it would be a very different story. Wouldn't even have to be a default effect, I'd gladly pay 4AP to have Detect really ruin a Ninjas day instead of just making them go "Awww, I don't get to Trick Attack" right as they hit me with Overwhelm. OK I'd rather be Stunned than hit with Trick Attack, but I'm still at a disadvantage.

[Vandril]

The thing is, they don't need to be. Once I'm sitting in an AoE the Ninjas only advantage is a surprise Overwhelm, something they can do just as easily the moment they see Detect wipe Hide. Were Detect to have an additional effect on enemies who are Hidden, I'd find it much more useful, though still niche.

The current pay off verses AoE attacks is certainly that Detect has greater range, but that just isn't particularly useful at all. If I discover a Hidden Ninja, the advantage should be mine, instead they have the advantage because Detect does nothing and they still know I'm there, while I'm going "Did Detect uncover anyone?". Were they at least hit with Stun it would be a very different story. Wouldn't even have to be a default effect, I'd gladly pay 4AP to have Detect really ruin a Ninjas day instead of just making them go "Awww, I don't get to Trick Attack" right as they hit me with Overwhelm. OK I'd rather be Stunned than hit with Trick Attack, but I'm still at a disadvantage.

I get what you're saying, but I still don't quite agree that Detect is as underwhelming as you suggest. Trick/Surprise Attacks can be absolutely essential in taking out an enemy healer in a group. If something brings you out of hide, you need to use your Mundras to use them, which means missing out on a Raiton or a utility ninjutsu. A Ninja being taken out of Hide prematurely is actually a huge loss of burst, which does in fact put the user of Detect at an advantage.

And, not to nitpick, but there's a mild flaw to your logic involving Overwhelm: they can use it whether they get off Trick Attack or not. It's not "getting hit by the stun instead of TA", it's "getting hit with TA AND a stun". That stun will be hitting you (or someone else) either way.

Also, standing in an AoE only really protects the people standing in it. It's usually a bad idea to have so many people cluttered into a small area in a game that has Black Mages and Caster LB. :P That, and the AoEs only damage every couple of seconds. It's possible to enter an AoE and still get off a Trick Attack, with some luck and timing. I do it all the time, as I use sprint before I Hide, since I have no TP issues.

To summarize, Detect does have a niche that other AoEs just cannot fill. I am not arguing that it shouldn't be buffed in some way, but I am arguing against the fact that it's useless or extremely underwhelming. It can quite literally tip a battle in your and your team's favor if you get lucky/use it at the right time when the enemy has a Ninja or three.

If it were to be buffed, I'd love for it to be usable while Hidden without it breaking Hidden. Or maybe a lower CD. I don't want it to have a Stun, due to diminishing returns and the like, but maybe it could have a slow or heavy effect on targets taken out of Hidden.