If DRG does in fact get a buff...

[siverstorm]

You know what, I will humor you if I can get my FC crafter to make me two i110 HQ sets for MNK and NIN. I won't even have to use Nexus...

If they're feeling generous enough they could throw a couple of the monk pieces my way :P

But in all seriousness you shouldn't have to spend the money to prove a point that's common knowledge to everyone else already :P

[Verus]

who said I was under i110? HA Weapon + i110 gear equal plausible numbers.

You said prior to getting geared.

I don't want to start throwing insults but you literally do not understand what sustained dps is this entire conversation is pointless.

I think you misundertand. I understand sustained dps, DRG simply doesn't sustain it the same way as other classes. We have 20 seconds of B4B with 60 seconds of it down every rotation. During that 20 seconds of B4B in i110 a DRG can do almost 20k damage. The minute without the buff evens them out and the dps fluctuation at the 8 minute point of most fights is sometimes less than 5 dps overall. The 465 you saw in the video is sustainable I assure you.

[Orlandeu]

In case you haven't seen the 520 ninja parse with 110 gear and 115 weapon over the course of about the same time as yours, I suggest you try looking it up.

So your saying your dragoon who offers little to no utility and a subpar dummy number is close if not equal to a ninja who offers a 10% damage boost to ALL members of your party 10 seconds a minute, goad and numbers reaching above what a dragoon can dish out? Or even a monk who has a proven, higher static dps than dragoons, Dragon Kick debuff which would save your life because of your crap magic defense?
You don't understand the problem because you deny the fact that dragoons are in bad shape.

[Houston009]

You said prior to getting geared.

Look at my current gear, i consider this "geared"

[Verus]

In case you haven't seen the 520 ninja parse with 110 gear and 115 weapon over the course of about the same time as yours, I suggest you try looking it up.

So your saying your dragoon who offers little to no utility and a subpar dummy number is close if not equal to a ninja who offers a 10% damage boost to ALL members of your party 10 seconds a minute, goad and numbers reaching above what a dragoon can dish out? Or even a monk who has a proven, higher static dps than dragoons, Dragon Kick debuff which would save your life because of your crap magic defense?
You don't understand the problem because you deny the fact that dragoons are in bad shape.

I have seen that video and without showing a gear set the video is rendered useless. Let me equip my crafted gear and I can parse 500 sometimes more depending on crit rng. That video shows a very lucky crit string which for any dps would be a major improvement over normally obtained numbers.

I completely agree with the magic defense issue being a thing. Buff it, I welcome it. The only thing I am saying is there are way too many variables in this game as it stands to accurately depict the difference in the current melee dps. I'm not saying that everyone does this but I'm sure that some players may be using some i130 gear or crafted to pull those numbers like the 520 ninja. If he showed his gear being i110 then i'd rest my case about ninja. As far as monk, drg is much closer in dps that people think. Saying they are separated by a 40-50 dps gap is simply inaccurate is all I am saying.

[Eardstapa]

I can tell you what gear set that player used, considering it was MNK BiS for up until 2.4 launched, along with High Allagan Cleavers...

[Whiston]

I think this thread went a little off topic regarding the sustained DPS. The OP initially said if they buffed drg damage they would be ripping hate from tanks, to which I reply: HA HA HA HA HA!
Is this a joke? You should play with some better tanks.
My War opener bursts 550-600dps also, of course it's not sustained. Point is, 7 gcd in, I can stop what I'm doing for the next twenty gcd and you STILL won't have hate.

Find better tanks.

[siverstorm]

I think this thread went a little off topic regarding the sustained DPS. The OP initially said if they buffed drg damage they would be ripping hate from tanks, to which I reply: HA HA HA HA HA!
Is this a joke? You should play with some better tanks.
My War opener bursts 550-600dps also, of course it's not sustained. Point is, 7 gcd in, I can stop what I'm doing for the next twenty gcd and you STILL won't have hate.

Find better tanks.

He needs to find better tanks & better monks from what the discussion trailed off into :P

[Whiston]

Double post.

[whiskeybravo]

For what it's worth, I've known Verus a long time, he's actually the first friend I made in game many, many moons ago. I know he's a top-end DRG and much more a top-end raider, he downed t5 before I was even geared enough for turn 1, and downed t9 before I downed t6. The passive-aggressive jabs here sort of make me ashamed.

Good points are made on both sides, it's long been acknowledged that the best monk is going to out dps the best dragoon by 8-10%, or 40-50 DPS at 110 item level. Ninja may be a little OP, given the best of both DRG and MNK (high potency attacks, good utility, skill speed boost, etc), which does put DRG in a bad spot overall when coupled with the mDef problem. While I personally feel most of the DPS discrepancy is made up for by superior DRG AoE, AoE just doesn't matter in coil, so if it comes down making the choice of 1 or 2 melee in the group DRG is going to get shafted unless, like many already good DRG, their static is willing to stick with them. We did have at least 1 DRG clear t13, so it's not absolutely broken or unable to compete by any means.

I do think that the melee classes (and all dps for that matter) should be capable of similar dps, with the only real debate over what "utility" each brings to the raid. SMN has battle rez and virus/E4E, Bards obviously sing songs and stuff, MNK has Int Debuff/silence/traited mantra, NIN has the damage buff for the group.. What does DRG have? Not much compared to others.