Locked out of the Duty Finder.

[Giantbane]

It *does* open the door to trolling things for groups, though. Put a partial together. Queue as partial, withdraw, have a few cheap giggles. Pass off lead, rinse, repeat.

Say you've got a group of 3. If you gave out individual strikes, each member would get 2 free strikes, and then somebody would be on lockout after number 3. So 6 free strikes for "giggles" to troll the queue.

Say you took that group of 3 and decided to queue as individuals. They could each get 2 free strikes each, and then somebody would be on lockout after number 3. They can take turns trolling the queue for 6 free strikes for "giggles". You'll notice being in a group didn't give you any extra strikes. And anybody that dedicated to trolling is going to have a tank or healer to do it with. So punishing the group with additional strikes for those who didn't withdraw is unnecessary.

Honestly, if people wouldn't have been trolling queues and/or fishing for in progress (you can't queue for JIP as a group, but it still has to be taken into account) we wouldn't need something like this. I don't think SE is to blame for it; the people that were doing it were.

We're talking primarily about partial groups at the moment and whether or not it's appropriate to give strike to the whole group or the one who withdrew. In this scenario, you do NOT have to take fishing for in progress (or fishing for anything) into account because that does not exist for groups.

[Ashkendor]

You'll notice being in a group didn't give you any extra strikes. And anybody that dedicated to trolling is going to have a tank or healer to do it with. So punishing the group with additional strikes for those who didn't withdraw is unnecessary.

Eh, yeah, I guess you have a point; if you don't mind being locked out of the DF for awhile, it doesn't matter. There's always the ST/CT queues though; imagine queueing in a premade of 6 or 7 and what you could do. That admittedly is a very specific situation, but those queues are the absolute worst for withdrawals in my experience.

When we're talking about whether or not the person that withdrew should get a strike or the whole partial group should get a strike, you do NOT have to take fishing for in progress (or fishing for anything) into account because that does not exist because we're primarily talking about groups at the moment.

I more meant taking it into account for the system as a whole. Do I really like it? Eh. It's stopped a lot of the fishing/trolling, but I have been screwed by it a couple of times. I don't really actively like or dislike it, but I do believe that it was needed to stop a lot of the queue shenanigans that were going on.

[Fynlar]

Partial groups were still able to troll events too even before this withdraw penalty thing. Just look at Crystal Tower. All you needed was enough people to be the majority in the party and nobody could even kick you, potentially forcing an eventual vote abandon.

Even still, the amount of time they're able to do it for is limited, even with just the one person withdrawing getting dinged for it.

[Giantbane]

Eh, yeah, I guess you have a point; if you don't mind being locked out of the DF for awhile, it doesn't matter. There's always the ST/CT queues though; imagine queueing in a premade of 6 or 7 and what you could do. That admittedly is a very specific situation, but those queues are the absolute worst for withdrawals in my experience

I more meant taking it into account for the system as a whole. Do I really like it? Eh. It's stopped a lot of the fishing/trolling, but I have been screwed by it a couple of times. I don't really actively like or dislike it, but I do believe that it was needed to stop a lot of the queue shenanigans that were going on.

I agree the rampant queue withdraws were a problem. On the whole I'm disappointed in their solution because I think they could have done something more targeted to the causes of the withdraws combined with solutions to keep players from having to click commence 20 times to get in a dungeon. But I can live with the solo queue 3 strikes thing even if I don't think it wasn't the best way to fix the problem.

I just don't think the group penalty is necessary or warranted. I'm pretty sure individual 3 strike penalties, even within groups, would still be 99% as effective without any of the negative side effects.