Dragoons feeling left out?

[Zumi]

There exists a balance issue in the game. In that everything a DRG does a MNK or NIN can do better and have better group utility. It isn't a huge difference and you still can do final coil with drgs, but if you have the option you would before the other 2 melee jobs over DRG. So yes the game does need some balancing.

[beowulf81]

I don't mean to be rude Hyrist, but what on earth are you babbling about?

Your initial response to amdapor included this line:

I maintain the fact that I fundamentally disagree that the class is broken in any way that prevents its effectiveness or participation in endgame events.

That fundamental disagreement must be based upon something objective, since you are speaking of effectiveness in endgame. That would include examples of when your job excelled against another. Which Amdapor requested, and he is well within rights to do so. It is logical to request such evidence when you 'fundamentally disagree with the assertion that the class is broken in such a way that prevents effectiveness or participation in endgame events'.

If you refuse to back that statement up then it is worthless. Why waste your time and ours by posting it?

[beowulf81]

Let me answer this for you:

Dragoon is viable as I have cleared both 10 and 11, and most likely 12(maybe even 13 :P) with my Dragoon. T10 becomes trivial as soon as you get the tether + heat, tether+ charge or charge + heat, down. T11 is somewhat easy as well and only gets hectic during the last phase. It's also gonna need a little getting used to do your positionals when you are tethered but other than that, it's manageable.

Thank you for your response Orlandeu, it is very much appreciated. I wish you well in your efforts to take down T13!!

[Amador]

Beowulf81, as a XIV player... I can understand why my name would appear to be Amdapor. That made me chuckle.

Hyrist, I enjoyed reading your post. Very eloquently put, and an appreciated read. I respect your stance on not wanting to provide the requested. Though I am a bit, saddened by it; I understand that a player's skill can be a great influence in judgement in regards to a class. I am by no means intended to bash the job, or dethrone it from whichever throne it resides on.

Human aspect of the game, interaction, and entertainment are indeed important. A game must remain a game after all, however the game is based on equations, time, and patience. Some which few understand, do not have time for, and or lack the patience to accept them. My interest isn't to persuade a player to leave a job, I hope that is not what I am portraying. I am rather interested in aspects at which the job shines in.

Again, not to dethrone it but to better emphasis the use of it given such a situation. I'd like for the job to be more relevant to others, and to me as well. It's a job I have followed for many years, but as many... I am disheartened by it.

"So go play something else", some might say; however I do want to play Dragoon in nearly everything that I can but I'd like to do so in an enjoyable manner, rather than a frustrating, hair yanking, controller throwing fashion. It's a nice feeling to be able to play a job that is both #boss and #op. A job people look up to and think that's a good job! Just like people do so for monk.

While player skill should still definitely take into account, and reward the seasoned adventurer. It should not feel like you're pushing a boulder up hill when you're playing a game to enjoy your pass time.

[beowulf81]

LOL
apologies for that…. Amador

[Krr]

I'm just going to note that, while skill floor and ceiling is always relevant in discussions like this, when people like me say "The DRG does less DPS than the MNK or NIN by a substantial margin," what I'm speaking of specifically is the theoretical maximum DPS each job can do. That is to say, an imaginary perfect Dragoon clocks in at 15-20% lower DPS than an imaginary perfect Monk in just about any simulation. Furthermore, the real-world imperfect MNK loses less from executional failure than the real-world imperfect DRG with the very rare exception of relevant endgame encounters where the MNK has any serious risk of losing Greased Lightning. (Conversely, a lot of reports note that it is much easier for a DRG to lose heavy thrust and DB in these high-end battles, due to how the dangerous avoidable effects in each one are positioned.)

This is bad because it means no matter how hard you work as a DRG, you're just...always going to clock worse than a MNK of the same skill level, unless the party is doing really specific and cumbersome to maintain compositional set-ups.

DRGs don't have anything substantial to justify both their DPS floor and DPS ceiling being lower than both MNK and NIN.

Ultimately, this doesn't affect the 'average' player, who even at the top of his or her or their skill level mostly runs 4-man dungeons, older iterations of Coil, and 24-mans like ST. But the game should be balanced around what occurs at the top level of play, and this will result in almost nothing but a net improvement for players at the middle- and lower-levels of play.

Edit Addendum: It's worth noting that in the past, DRGs were considered relevant to mid- and high-tier encounters in spite of a higher skill barrier and lower DPS ceiling because raiding included encounters where MNKs were frequently at risk of losing Greased Lightning, such as Extreme Primals like Leviathan, Titan, and Garuda who frequently became untargetable or moved to difficult to hit positions, which justified being a DRG due to a lower 'ramp time' to achieve all their effects needed to hit peak DPS while even the best MNKs fought a constant struggle to maintain 3x GL.

That's not really the case any more, as basically every relevant endgame encounter is a Coil fight, and Coil fights traditionally feature bosses or adds that you can be, and are expected to be, basically always attacking, with very rare exceptions.

[Amador]

Video games indeed are bad...

Why can't everything just be like Sword Art Online?

[Krr]

kirito pls go

[myahele]

I don't think people are complaining too much regarding DRG dps. Just their overall moveset is lacking. MNK stances has: increased movement speed to help dodge aoes. Increased def. Increased damage and atk speed.

NIN has some of that + mug, goad, etc.

I believe NIN specific gear has less physical defense, but that's more or less moot since most end game aoes are magic anyways

[BigPapaSmurf]

Dragoon will be even better once we get Red Mage come 3.0.

Another Piercing attack-type, they'll likely have the Piercing buff too like NIN/WAR share.

Just calm yourself & wait for it.

Also new abilities in 3.0 so... moot.