Locked out of the Duty Finder.

[Souljacker]

Perhaps, but now we are going overboard with technicalities. I mean, what is the point of fishing a queue as a party? You can't roulette at low level as a party, and the likelihood of getting into a group that is in progress, and needs your specific makeup in High roulette is so low it's not even worth considering.

The issues with people withdrawing from ST isn't because folks are fishing for in progress. It's just a large amount of people withdrawing for various legitimate reasons over the course of the time in queue. It happens, and it's not trolling or griefing. Queue times for tanks even on my server stretch into several minutes - so it's not even worth it to try to fish that one.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

How do you know if the people withdrawing had a "legit" reason? I highly doubt that personal emergencies happen so frequently. Even if it wasn't for griefing purposes, people are still going to get very annoyed by the people who keep dropping out and holding up the game.

[MeiUshu]

@MilesSaintboroguh

So you would prefer that the guy enters, then fake a disconnect and leave behind an entire group that probably, depending on who dropped, will have to requeu from start?

seems kind of weird as a raisoning for me.

Just me though

Mei

[Fellisin]

I would love to know how you know these are "legitimate" reasons.

Also since 2.4 the number of withdrawals from ST has drop radically whilst queue times remain the same if not much better than ever before. Which for people constantly having "legitimate" reasons seem odd, surely they wouldn't become any less legitimate with a penalty and still thus cause withdrawals.

@MilesSaintboroguh

So you would prefer that the guy enters, then fake a disconnect and leave behind an entire group that probably, depending on who dropped, will have to requeu from start?

Have yet to see this happen once since 2.4. So how common is this hypothetical of yours??

[Souljacker]

How do you know if the people withdrawing had a "legit" reason? I highly doubt that personal emergencies happen so frequently. Even if it wasn't for griefing purposes, people are still going to get very annoyed by the people who keep dropping out and holding up the game.

Because we are playing an mmo with MILLIONS of other people, thousands upon thousands of which reside on individual servers. It happens. People have lives. The world doesn't revolve around the game's queue... or your personal annoyance that other people exist.

I agree that the queue fishing in low level\high level roulettes needed to be fixed, but the idea that a massive game like this with a HUGE playerbase should never have someone dropping from a queue is ridiculous.

[Fellisin]

Because we are playing an mmo with MILLIONS of other people, thousands upon thousands of which reside on individual servers. It happens. People have lives. The world doesn't revolve around the game's queue... or your personal annoyance that other people exist.

I agree that the queue fishing in low level\high level roulettes needed to be fixed, but the idea that a massive game like this with a HUGE playerbase should never have someone dropping from a queue is ridiculous.

They get TWO free drops out of the queue with in a 24 hour period before penalties are applied.

[Souljacker]

They get TWO free drops out of the queue with in a 24 hour period before penalties are applied.

And we are talking largely about issues in which entire parties are eating a penalty because of one person's behavior (among other things). There's a better solution that doesn't involve punishment. Why are people so happy for getting innocents caught up in the crusade? This game isn't going to win any more subscriptions by advertising that mistakes or RL issues earn you a virtual "black mark", even if it does reset at JP midnight. It's just... just bad business.

[Fellisin]

And we are talking largely about issues in which entire parties are eating a penalty because of one person's behavior (among other things). There's a better solution that doesn't involve punishment. Why are people so happy for getting innocents caught up in the crusade? This game isn't going to win any more subscriptions by advertising that mistakes or RL issues earn you a virtual "black mark", even if it does reset at JP midnight. It's just... just bad business.

Well that a pretty big assertion there. Can you actually show that this will put off new subscriptions?

Also a party could be used to avoid dungeons people don't particularly want to play without getting penalties if it wasn't applied to the whole party. Say it wasn't applied to a group, then in a group of two that party would collectively have 4 free passes before any punishment is applied. So if someone didn't want to play Haukke Manor HM for example on high roulette they could potentially have 4 get out jail free cards as far as haukke manor or any dungeons they wanted to avoid was concerned.

EDIT: My mistake here, I was thinking of something else, so the above underlined is incorrect!

[Aethaeryn]

MILLIONS

In other thoughts, I kinda don't care for the 30-minute lockout because of someone else withdrawing either. However, I wish a few people would stop suggesting the 'hide progress' thing in every thread ever. This is not a good solution for this game. I queue in progress for friends who lose a tank or healer in <50 dungeons all of the time. If you hide the progress, it'll be extremely difficult to make sure you're joining the same group. Pointing out that hiding progress worked for WoW doesn't mean anything here because on WoW you can just invite someone to your group while you're already in the dungeon. When they implement the ability to do that here, I'll be all for hiding the progress. Before that, you are causing more issues than you're helping.

[Souljacker]

Well that a pretty big assertion there. Can you actually show that this will put off new subscriptions?

Also a party could be used to avoid dungeons people don't particularly want to play without getting penalties if it wasn't applied to the whole party. Say it wasn't applied to a group, then in a group of two that party would collectively have 4 free passes before any punishment is applied. So if someone didn't want to play Haukke Manor HM for example on high roulette they could potentially have 4 get out jail free cards as far as haukke manor or any dungeons they wanted to avoid was concerned.

Except, in the roulette you don't know what the dungeon is until you've hit accept, right? I could be wrong but they still would get the deserter debuff for dumping out of the dungeon after accepting. The strikes doesn't apply unless you withdraw at the ready screen.

We're now confusing two separate issues.

I queue in progress for friends who lose a tank or healer in <50 dungeons all of the time.

I'd agree, but you do realize that if your queue pops for that dungeon you were aiming for, and it's NOT an in progress (which it often isn't in the case of the popular ones that many people queue for to finish logs and etc. In Progress isn't always at the very front of the queue.) you've just earned yourself a strike as you withdraw and try again, right? This solution hurts folks trying to help their friends as well, and the only reason we even NEEDED that to begin with is because the queue doesn't filter people into dungeons as they open because of the "in progress" check that should have never existed in the first place.

Then, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

And really, I think that I've said everything I possibly can on the matter. SE is going to do what they will, and as far as evidence that it will hurt subs if word gets out regarding arbitrary penalties...

I'd suggest you have a look at XI's history. A great game, that never realized its full potential because the design punished players fairly often just for playing the game. It could have owned the landscape instead of being overtaken by WoW. XIV has that same potential as well, if SE can put a little more thought into their designs for things in the first place, instead of adding punishments to deter unwanted behavior as an afterthought.