Break the Trinity System Please

[Granyala]

The idea of support classes surely is nice but they are way more of a headache than they are worth in practice.

Once they design encounters with their support in mind they become mandatory for every raid, similar to WoWs Sunwell back in the day.
Not enough Shadows / Shamans online? Well cancel the raid.

As far as a broken trinity goes: Guild Wars 2 tried that and the content ended up being a horrible zerg fest. No thanks.

[Shadex]

The idea of support classes surely is nice but they are way more of a headache than they are worth in practice.

Once they design encounters with their support in mind they become mandatory for every raid, similar to WoWs Sunwell back in the day.
Not enough Shadows / Shamans online? Well cancel the raid.

As far as a broken trinity goes: Guild Wars 2 tried that and the content ended up being a horrible zerg fest. No thanks.

Then the developers need to not build encounters around support. Square likes to think that the 14 player base is too dumb for true support/cc but I honestly think that maybe Square just doesn't want to have to actually come up with anything more complex for boss fights than tank and spank. Maybe if they put some effort in and created situations that did not require a support role but was certainly made less difficult or at least different because of it we could see some true support jobs. The issue is often that on either side, developer or player, people are far too stuck in a stupid cookie cutter tank and spank rut that no one wants to be moved out of their comfort zone.

There is a reason when people are new to a boss fight in most MMOs today the joke is to say, "Don't stand in anything and don't die" because more often than not... that is the extent of the ingenuity that the encounter entails. :/

[Granyala]

Then the developers need to not build encounters around support.

If the buffs from support classes are not mandatory, they will NEVER get a raid spot, because raw DPS/HPS are always more useful.

There really is no middle ground to be found because players will always minmax in order to maximize their chances of success.

It's easy to make bold claims and yell at the devs, but in the end it's not easy to come up with systems that work.
Many MMOs tried including WoW and guess what: WoW axed the role of support because of the problems it causes.

Players just miss support because it basically guarantees them a raid spot. Often due to recruitment problems even if they perform sub par.

[Moerser]

Then the developers need to not build encounters around support. Square likes to think that the 14 player base is too dumb for true support/cc but I honestly think that maybe Square just doesn't want to have to actually come up with anything more complex for boss fights than tank and spank...

The more random raids/primals/whatever u play...the more u will realize that u r totally right with this sentence.
the 14 player base is too dumb for true support/cc
Why?
Because the 14 player base is too dumb for the system we use atm.
Least thats what i see InGame, way more often than nice and smooth ppl tryin to play well as a team.

Greetz,
Mörser out

[raelgun]

talks about tank and spank

Do you even know what this term means in a mmo boss fight? have you done any coil, raided in WOW or Rift in a progressive manner?
You just used that term very wrong, also, if the fights arent regarded as complex, then why is the failure rate in coil so high for FF14 playerbase, also your talk about using CC in fights is deemed a harder thing to do, its not, its easy and it also makes the fights so much easier then it needs to be, you literally stop a mechanic instead of dealing with it directly and how it interacts with other parts of the fight. You obviously have no end game experience with tight mechanics if this is your opinion.

Lets give Sleep from BLMs as an example, not a boss fight, but its the most apparent to give, before the first boss in WP, mass pulling all the mobs and then sleeping the pack and just killing the tonberry is much easier then having to kill everything on the way as this opens up the doorway to the boss and you can lock out the remaining mobs out.

[Sapphic]

Do you even know what this term means in a mmo boss fight? have you done any coil, raided in WOW or Rift in a progressive manner?

In Rift, 20 man raids support was needed, Bard buffs made a huge difference, plus Chloro buffs. But, with 5 man content where you qued heals, tank, 2xdps plus support, if you qued as support and stayed as support, you would be a detriment, "support" switched to DPS inside. Which would be the exact same in FFXIV if they enforced a support role in dungeons.

Also with Rift, when I was raiding I'd switch souls during the run For trash i'd switch to Tactician, for one boss I'd switch to Assassin, and for others 61 Bard and still pump out respectable DPS whilst maintaining buffs.

To be fair, pure support is a dead system, starting dieing when Mezzers CC abilities got divided amongst other classes.